I invented a 2-phase DC battery pack

Page 5 of 5  


You want an oil furnace. The furnace changes the oil form the liquid to the gaseous phase. I suppose you could use a boiler, too, but that's not a "furnace". ;-)
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On 12/03/2013 12:36 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:
[snip]

I seem to remember the state of matter being called "phase". So you have two phase oil (liquid / gas).
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On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 14:10:34 -0600, Mark Lloyd

No, it's the liquid phase going into the furnace and the gaseous phase coming out. The furnace is a "phase converter". Coal and wood burners are the same deal.
Though you have a point. Perhaps an LP fired furnace is a better example.
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On 12/03/2013 04:04 AM, ralph wrote:

I have a gas furnace. Can you get 2-phase gas?
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On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 14:00:58 -0600, sam E

Propane furnaces use both liquid and a gas propane.
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On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 17:05:15 -0600, Dean Hoffman

It's quite simple. The rotary phase converter is a generator.
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On 12/2/13 7:24 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

But doesn't a phase converter manufacture just the third phase? So how would three phase motors run off of it if single phase is actually just one phase? There must actually be two incoming phases. That's why it makes sense to me that the term single phase is a misnomer at least on the secondary side of the utility transformer. Other misnomers if you're really bored: http://preview.tinyurl.com/ls5yz56
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On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:18:29 -0600, Dean Hoffman

Depending on how you look at it. In any case, how do you think it "manufactures" that third phase. The induction motor becomes a motor-generator.

Nope. Only one.

Words mean things. You're wrong.

Except "single phase" is *not* a misnomer.
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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:23:35 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

ee

nly

The IEEE says you're wrong. From an IEEE paper delivered at a conference of power engineers and published by the IEEE. It directly addresses the specific issue:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber4520128
"Which now brings into focus the reality that standard 120/240 secondary sy stems are not single phase line to ground systems, instead they are three w ire systems with two phases and one ground wires. Further, the standard 120 /240 secondary is different from the two phase primary system in that the s econdary phases are separated by 180 degrees instead of three phases separa ted by 120 degrees. "
Check out the author's credentials, all the highly technical papers he's had published by the IEEE.
Your response..... crickets and name calling.
Still waiting for your answer to the simple question asked a dozen times now. What is your definition of the electrical engineering term "phase"? How can you keep posting about something, yet you can't even define it?
Still waiting for an answer to the simple exercise I presented. We have what I believe you acknowledge is a two phase system used to deliver power in the past. It had two phases and a neutral. One phase was 90 deg off from the other. That had two phases, right?
OK, so now I change the phase relationship so they differ by 120 deg. How many phases now? Still two? I make it 220 deg. Still two? I make it 175 deg. Still two? I make them differ by 180, how many phases do I have now? And if the latter is still two phase, it's electrically indistinguishable from what you have on a 240/120V split phase service.
All simple questions, that even a high school student could answer, but we have no answers, just crickets and insults.
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On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 01:17:57 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

You keep proving that you're illiterate. You really are getting as bad as Malformed.
<snipped more drivel, unread>
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On 12/04/2013 04:17 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I can't figure out whether you're a moron or a troll.
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On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:32:45 -0500, Fred wrote:

The transformer on my house is single phase in and single phase out.
The secondary may be split-voltage but it sure ain't two phase.
All we know for certain is that traitor4 is wrong. :-)
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wrote:

Oh, my! Now he'll be stalking you.
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On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:32:45 PM UTC-5, Fred wrote:

That figures. You're confused. I can figure it out in your case though.
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On 12/3/2013 8:18 PM, Dean Hoffman > wrote:

So lets take the UK system in Andrew's post - 230V, 2 wires, hot and neutral. It is clearly single phase. Connect it to a phase-converter and you have 3-phase. One-phase becomes 3-phase.
Your argument doesn't work. The phase-converter creates the 3rd phase relative to the single phase source.
It is like open delta, where a single transformer adds the 3rd phase. You could do a corner grounded open delta - you have 2 clearly single phase transformers that give you 3-phase.
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On 12/02/2013 06:05 PM, Dean Hoffman > wrote:

I don't know about you and Emma but I'd send that piece-of-shit rotary phase converter back to China Harbor Fright and get a proper one from www.americanrotary.com .
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This discussion seems to keep going on, continued from prior identical threads on other newsgroups. Each person is repeating the same thing over and over. It is clear that I'm not the only one with too much time on their hands!
Yes, everyone (should) agree with the basic idea of phase. Yes, the grids of push-pull tubes are 180 degrees apart in phase, as are the plates. Yes, the two leads of a simple transformer secondary are 180 degrees apart in phase, regardless of whether there is a center tap or not.
The argument seems to hinge on whether the power grid uses the same definition of phase. Of course it does. But then you confuse "split phase" of a 3-phase power system with the obvious fact that a center-tapped transformer secondary has each side 180 degrees apart from the other. Big deal. You are still referring to the one phase of a 3 phase power distribution system, that is split into two voltages by center-tapping a local distribution transformer.
I think this discussion is comparable to two political parties refusing to acknowledge their positions are just two ways of looking at the same thing. If they agreed, there would be no need for two parties!
Fred
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On Friday, December 6, 2013 5:22:39 PM UTC-5, Fred McKenzie wrote:

Yes, they should, but only a few have even tried to define it.
> Yes, the

Not true. If a transformer has only two leads, they are *not* 180 degrees out of phase because there is just a single circuit. You can't see two waveforms on a scope, because there aren't two.
Going back to what started all this, someone just said that the two hot legs of a split-phase service are 180 deg apart. krw said that was flat out wrong, that they are just "opposites" Aside from the fact that "opposites" is not exactly an engineering term, what about your push-pull example? Is it not correct to say the output is 180 degrees apart from the input?

It's not a big deal. It's just that you then have a 3 wire circuit with two phases present that are 180 deg apart. You can see it on a scope.
> You are still referring to the one phase of a 3

Who is the you? And just because it's common to refer to something as one thing, does that make it so? If everyone calls a peanut a nut, does it make it one? My guess would be that those stuck on the other side of this call it single phase because the PRIMARY of the transformer is on a single phase. That doesn't change the physics of what is on the secondary side. Also, in your experience, can you cite an example where you split something and still have just one thing? It is called "split-phase".

If you believe the last nonsense, I can see why you're totally confused.
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On 12/10/2013 12:30 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

If the secondary winding had 9 equally spaced taps, how many phases would you have then?
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On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:13:33 PM UTC-5, Elan wrote:

You would still have two phases.
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