I already had electrical outlets installed prior to sheetrock...

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I did not know that.
The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of fumbles.
They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the stud and finished wall. I followed their instructions and ok the work so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.
Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am ready to install the switches and outlets. Seems to make sense to me at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. I used double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.
I didn't really think through this whole process. I am still a bit confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/ outlet but I used a double gang box.
Thanks,
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The router bit just pokes a little way through the other side of the wallboard. They'll * mark the location of the outlet on the floor, * put the wallboard up with just a few screws, * eyeball the location of the outlet, * plunge the bit into the center of the box, * move left to find the edge of the box, * skip over to the outside of the box, and * move clockwise around the outside, removing the rectangle.
I would take the outlets out of the boxes, but leave the mud rings on.
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
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wrote:

I did not know that.
The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of fumbles.
They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the stud and finished wall. I followed their instructions and ok the work so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.
Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am ready to install the switches and outlets. Seems to make sense to me at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. I used double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.
I didn't really think through this whole process. I am still a bit confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/ outlet but I used a double gang box.
Thanks,
You are talking about two different types of boxes. Some boxes, single, double, triple gang are bang on flush mount and don't use mud rings. That type of box is mounted to the stud with the front sticking out beyond the stud, for the thickness of the finished wall. Other types of boxes, such as 1900 box, is mounted flush to the stud, and you install whatever depth mud ring you need to be flush with the wall finishing. Sheet rock routers will cut the hell out of the wires if the wires aren't pushed back or the bit is too long. When I'm on jobs with rockers that I don't know, I like to stick my 6'3" 220 lb frame in their faces and politely suggest they be nice to my wires. Most rockers are pretty good today, but when those tools first came out, it was a nightmare, the damage these guys did to the wiring.
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On Feb 22, 5:39 pm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

There may be a bit of confusion here. There are two types of box add- ons.
1. Mud ring - meant to be used for plaster work. Been a long time since I looked at one of those so I don't recall how much they 'stick out'. It isn't much, just the thickness of the plaster coats.
2. Box extenders - used to increase the amount of room in the box.
They are quite different animals.
Harry K
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One more question. How do they cut out for the ceiling hi hat lights and exhaust fans that are there already? They can't use a router to route around the can or do they?
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On Feb 22, 12:20 am, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

You should just not roll over them. Generally, a piece of tape across the top will protect from splatter.

Yikes. Why didn't you just install 1 or 2 per room... assuming there aren't 36 rooms... -----
- gpsman
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Andy comments:
If you are talking about the actual receptacles, you will notice that when properly installed, the "ears" at each end are meant to lay on the surface of the sheet rock, which is then covered with the escutcheon plate.
You need to take an electric screwdriver and loosen the receptacles so then can be tilted outward, while remaining wired in. The sheet rock guys will cut the pattern and fit it over the box, and the tilted receptacles won't be in the way... much....
Then, when the sheet rock is nailed, you can screw the receptacles back into the outlet box, and everything will be as if the receptacles were installed AFTER the sheet rock, which is the normal way.
It is a little more trouble, but you don't really have to do an electrical disconnect, which would really be a pain in the ass for 72 outlets.
It will slow the sheet rock boys down a little, and they will bitch, but you can do it.
If you don't, the holes in the sheet rock will be about a half inch longer than they have to be, and you will have to fill it with mud and/or tape, to keep the receptacle from "floating" (being wobbly) . The ears need to rest against something solid......
Been there, done that, regretted it....
Andy in Eureka, Texas
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On Feb 22, 12:20 am, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for your chop saw. If you don't have a chop saw rent one. Cut the ends off of enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of the mud rings. you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. If you have room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. If you do not have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove the devices. Install the handy box covers. Tell the dry wall foreman that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed whether damage occurs or not. Be clear with her/him that the boards must be applied with the covers in place. If they know their business they will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover, fall off the edge of the cover, and cut out around the cover for a perfect fitting hole every time. With mud rings there is no reason to cut around the inside of the ring. The only way the ring will fit in the opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised opening. A few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds that mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.
I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that matches the thickness of the sheet rock being used. To obtain that I use rings with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the nominal thickness of the drywall. What I get for my trouble is a ring that actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. As a result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support. I get no floating devices that way. I have been praised by several owners for the fit and finish of my work.
-- Tom Horne
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Tom:
In my house I have about 70% of the sheet rock down. Most of those would be replaced by 1/2" standard sheet rock, but the existing sheet rock remains in some areas. It may be difficult to match the thickness since the existing wall is a layer of cement material with a layer of gypsum board backing, and top coated with plasters. It is very difficult to demo this material, as around all the wall or ceiling corners is embedded wire mesh that makes it very difficult to not get a lot of tear outs.
My boxes are all flushed with the studs, and there are 3/8" or 1/2" (have to check) raised mud rings on them. I attach the receptacles to the mud ring holes, not the sheet rock. Part of the reason for doing so is in the event I have to change my mind on some walls on the thickness in order to match existing, I an vary the mud ring thickness instead of messing with the box.
I think I follow your suggestion is to basically create a template to mount on top of the mud ring, such template is created by shaving off say 3/8" on all sides of a blank cover plate, so the sheet rockers will route around the outside of the plate instead of the inside of the box. This is certainly a solution. It also serves as a neat way to protect the device or the wires from being exposed to the dust and mud during the process.
I guess one question I have is since the mud ring is raised, why can't the sheet rockers route around the outside of the raised portion? Is it because the raised portion is not a square edge and hence the cut will not be clean and neat? Just seem like chopping up a lot of metal cover plates would be quite a bit of work as well.
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Commercial sheet rockers are all well prepared to rout around plaster rings. There are even some who are quite willing to measure and cut, though the 1/2" residential boys have gone to hanging first and cutting after. The plaster rings will need to be the proper depth before the rock is hung, so your old plaster areas may need much deeper plaster rings. You don't get to change your mind after the rock is on. It sounds to me that your best approach would be to talk to the sheetrocker. The receps need to be out of the hole for ease of cutting and good smooth tape and bed. The boxes will get lots of mud in them, or you can buy or make little sponge or plastic hole fillers. Here is one version from Crouse Hinds: www.crouse-hinds.com/crousehinds/newproducts/relatedinfo/SmartGuard%20Metalguard.pdf
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DanG this is very helpful thanks.
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