HVAC Heating Zone question

[HA HA Budys Here]

Maybe where you're located, Turtle. But up here the contractors charge the homeowners based on what the homeowner think's s/he's getting, not what the products cost to purchase.

Also, central a/c is somewhat common though in most localities, hardly necessary and therefore, not as expensive to install (especially in new construction) as it would be down South or in the MidWest where they're as necessary as our baseboard heating systems, if not more so.

Add a heat pump to this mix, however, and the contractors realize a substantial savings. They talk homeowners into them because for little more than the basic cost of a basic central a/c system, the contractor has also provided heat w/o running a single pipe for baseboards. And not having to provide a triple wall, double insulated stainless steel flue along with a roof penetration, to a contractor, is just golden.

None of which concerns the homeowner, because as a businessman, time saved is money in the contractor's pocket.

The OP is finishing space that otherwise wasn't planned for in the heat/a/c load calculations. Or maybe, so the contractor says. What the heck, if the contractor can get the owner to spring for a totally unnecessary 3rd heatpump package, complete, well that's just icing on the cake.

I do know about it. All about it. And I think I'm more in tune to how contractors and homebuilders operate in the Northeast. Do you know how a homeowner can tell his builder is lying? His lips are moving.

I'll bet the homeowner was also told he heeds a bigger electrical service for that additional heatpump as well. Not to mention all that extra power and lighting a bonus room/den will need.

If you forget everything I've said, fine, but remember this:

In the Northeast, unless you have cheap hydropower (which effectively puts you so far north as to make a heatpump virtually useless anyway) natural gas provided by a regulated utility, or an oil burner fueled by oil companies who are in direct competition with regulated gas utilities, is ALWAYS CHEAPER for heating a home.

I don't care whether you react or not. The OP was more about the necessity of another zone on a still undescribed system, although it was suggested to the OP by the contractor that the additional space be on it's own heatpump system.

[Gate]

snip

I suppose you are not familiar with the equipment I've referenced. The system actually has desired humidity level settings and will maintain them, so say for example in the summer time, the sensible is steady but latent has increased, the system will remove latent without noticible change in sensible.

Another words... The thermostat will operate the A/C strictly for dehumidification without allowing the room temperature to decrease.

possibly. but that holds true with *any* brand of equipment you would purchase. I will be quite honest here in saying that years ago I was against Carrier/Bryant equipment for over-usage of controls, etc; and the same went for Lennox and Trane as well. I would install units that were less complicated, etc; and yeah - they were cheap. Coleman, York, Goodman (Janitrol), Comfort-Aire, Nordyne products (Miller, Kelvinator, Westinghouse), Heil, I could name several more.

Times have changed, Carrier has changed, and for the most part to the better. Carier listened to contractors when they redisgned their entire product line. Better built, less callbacks (warranty calls) equipment that actually reduces customers utility bills.

As for zoning needs... You can't beat Arzel

electric motorized dampers, very intuitive control panels, no need to redisgn and reInstall ductwork (existing ducts can be split into various zones with no problems - as long as they are accessible).

A little FYI: You use computer technology to access this newsgroup. You may want to print a post for whatever reason, and your printer is connected to the CPU via a USB connection. Carriers Infinity Control/Furnace/Air Conditioner/Heat Pump are connected basically the same way: via a universal serial buss where only

4 wires are needed even for 2-stage heating and 2-stage cooling. A 24vac (+), common (-), and two data terminals. The system is self-diagnosing. We have been putting them in since they came out, and have 0 service calls on them so far.

peace,

-Gate

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Is that North of Mississippi ?

I'm not versed in cold weather for here +40ºF is frost bite weather and Warm is

100ºF+ .

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I was reading Gerry's replys and you do live were it does get cold and the Heat Pump would not be a very good replacement for a Oil or Gas fire furnace. Go first Oil / Gas then last Heat Pump. Heat Pumps are good but in heavy use / cold ass weather oil or gas will out do them heat pumps in cost to operate and heat faster.

TURTLE

[gerry]

You are correct that I'm not familiar with that particular system. Thanks for the info (and that below)!

I'd love to know how they control latent heat without a noticeable change in sensible AND operated at the specified SEER. That is an incredible amount of stuff to juggle ;-)

gerry

[MC]

Since natrual gas at this time does not follow oil pricing changes as much, would it not make more sense today to go natural gas than oil fired ?

MC

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

This is a local issue and the only [ More Senciable fuel choice ] good choice would be look at the local cost per BTU of oil -- natural gas --- Propane --- Electricity and see which is best in your area.

Here in Louisiana Natural gas is the best choice for we here produce about 20% of the natural gas the United States uses. Natural gas is Cheapest cost and Electricity is the highest cost. Other states will be a different story all together.

TURTLE

[Gate]

gerry wrote: clip

snip

S.E.E.R - "The total cooling output of a central air conditioner in British thermal units during its normal usage period for cooling divided by the total electrical energy input in watt-hours during the same period. The test procedure is determined by the Air-Conditioning and Refrigeration Institute."

Latent Heat - Is defined as the heat which flows to or from a material without a change to temperature.

Sensible Heat - Is defined as the heat energy stored in a substance as a result of an increase in its temperature.

Heat - Is a form of energy that is transferred from one body (system ) to another body (system or surroundings). Heat transfer can occur when there is a temperature difference. Assume two bodies with different temperatures are brought into contact with each other. The heat transfers from the hotter body to the colder one. This will continue until the temperature of the bodies are the same (thermal equilibrium). The SI unit of heat is joule (J).

If you need to know more of the "basics" try here:

Ummm... what does the Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio (SEER) of equipment have to do with dehumidification?

The difference between air conditioning and dehumidification is: Air conditioning changes sensible by transferring heat and lowering the temperature of the air in the conditioned space where dehumidification removes latent heat without a noticable change in sensible.

Example. You have a basement. In your basement you have a dehumidifier operating to remove excessive moisture [hence dehumidify). Does that dehumidifier make your basement and colder?

In my remarks I stated that the system I referred to enabled your home air conditioner to act as a "whole house dehumidifier." So it removes latent (moisture) without changing sensible - which is exactly what a dehumidifier does...

Looky here:

[gerry]

Natural gas very much LEADS oil prices in markets such as Boston! The problem is delivery. The pipeline can't handle it and, particularly since

9/11, LNG delivery via tanker has limited capacity.

In Eastern MA, they even supplement NG with air-propane mix in the NG mains at peak winter demand. That drives up propane and "pseudo NG" prices.

gerry