Those boxes both seem to have holes in the same places to me. I've yet to come across a light fixture that didn't work with the screw holes in existing boxes and that existing box you have doesn't look unusual to me.
I still don't understand how a recessed light can just attach to a box like that. How can it be recessed? You have a link to the product?
And for sure, you're not going to get that new side nail box that you posted in without opening up the ceiling. They make old work boxes that have ears or expansion widgets on the side so they can go into a whole in the ceiling about the size you have. But I think until we see what it is that you want to install, and better yet the instructions, we're just shooting in the dark.
I think the likelihood of getting that old box out without screwing up the ceiling is small. And if you're going to screw the ceiling, might as well just open up a section of drywall. Especially if it's just it's own small 2' x 4' section over a sink and not the main ceiling.
Every time I've had to take a box out, it seems that it's been in a wall or ceiling with a comb/sand finish or something like that. So I've become rather good at knocking boxes out without disturbing the wall...
To those of you responding with helpful advice, here is pic of light and description from Home Depot site. It is designed to slip inside the box with the
2 screw posts pointing in.
\"The Disk Light can be installed in an existing recessed can or wherever a 4 in. junction box is installed - making it extremely versatile for both retro-fit and new installation.\"
The light is new from Home Depot. I may just try to bang out the old box.
Thanks for the help all. Oh and Derby Daddy, do you post any useful advice or just read posts and provide worthless commentary?
OK first of all why won't the light fit on your old box? It looks like a s tandard plastic ceiling box - maybe attached the same way as the loose box you posted a pic of, so removing it might involve breaking it apart and/or using a hacksaw unless you just give up and bust up the drywall. Second, i t'll be much easier to use either an 'old work box' or a metal box with a s eparate hanger bar if you do replace it, although I don't see the need...
It's an interesting LED light that he's found. I've never seen one like that. They call it recessed, but it actually sticks out 2", but it does attach to a
4" ceiling box.
It think this is it on HD. If not, it's the same type. If link doesn't work, you can search for disk light.
You replied to a post I made 6 years ago. When someone brought that up, I merely mentioned that you were probably searching for information and came across a old thread. What?s your problem with that?
Can you post a picture of the light? I'm still not understanding how it couldn't fit, all the pics you've posted are of pretty standard ceiling boxes and a ceiling light intended for mounting on a box ought to fit all of them.
I am just stepping into the conversation now - without seeing all the history - but lamp canopies do NOT fit the cover holes of round or octagon ceiling boxes. That is what the T-Bar (or cross bar) is for. The bar fastens to the box. With or without a fixture tube, the fixture fastens to the cross bar, and the canopy, if it screws to the mounting, is screwed to the cross bar - NOT to the box.
He posted a pic of the light already, but it's just a pic of the outside of the light. What he should post is the link to the light at HD, the install instructions, something that shows why the mount for the new light won't fit the current box. I went to HD website and they have a couple that look like it. It's not really recessed, it sticks out 2" and it's LED. So that apparently gives them enough room for the power supply. That explains how a "recessed" light can go on a box like that. It's not really recessed. The one I saw at HD online didn't have install instructions or anything that showed the back of the light, how it connects, etc.
In the beginning, he posted a pic of the current box and his new proposed box. He keeps saying the holes are in different locations, but from the pic, they seemed the same to me. The other obvious problem is his proposed box is the nail in style and we all know that isnt' going in, unless he tears open the drywall. He needs an old work box that's rated to hold a fixture. That assumes he can get the existing box out without opening the drywall.
But before we get to all that, I'm with you. That old box is plastic, which means it's not some strange 100 year old box. I've yet to see a box that looked like that which would not connect to a common light fixture.
I poked around the HD site, couldn't find anything. Looks like a Cree-made product (good, probably high CRI) but I also couldn't find a picture of anything other than the room side of the light, or any installation instructions.
Worst case scenario, since after my original post suggesting a fan box, he's clarified that this is over a kitchen sink, so no need for a fan rated box. At this point I would bust out the old box if it really won't work, and go buy a metal octagon box and a steel hanger (e.g. Raco
8325 - that's the NM cable version, if your house uses armored cable, you'd need a box with different cable clamps but it would look simlar) and install that through the 4" hole in the drywall. It'll be a pain in the ass, as it will require screwing the hanger to the joists by hand with a plain old screwdriver through a really small hole, but if that doesn't work, the light really doesn't fit a "standard ceiling box."
I'd still like a picture of *why* it won't work, though, because a) I'm just naturally curious and b) understanding it more fully might help come up with a more creative solution.
Why does he need to do that instead of just using one of the old work boxes that are rated for holding fixtures up to a few pounds? It just goes in the hole and has tabs that you then expand out by turning screws to hold it in. That of course assumes the existing hole isn't too big to fit said new box.
I've never tried to get an old box out like that, but if it's nailed in there good, I would think it would be a bitch to do without damaging the drywall. And if you can't use an old work box, then it's gonna be a bitch getting the new one in. Which is why I said if it was in it's own separate little ceiling space above the sink, like in a lot of houses that I've seen, another option is to just take out a piece of drywall. It's not such a big deal. If it's part of the main ceiling, then it becomes more involved, ie you'd have to paint the whole ceiling, etc.
I think he took down the original pics he put up. But he had a pic of the old box and the proposed new box, which was the nail in type. He said that you can see that the holes are in different locations. I looked at the two pics and they both seemed to have holes in the same places, like the boxes we're all familiar with. And he never gave any more specifics other than that. Even if the holes are in different spots, one would think you could make an interposer if you will, eg a strip of metal or something that could adapt it. I wonder if this could be a USA/CA thing, metric issue of something?
IDK, but like I said, I've never seen a modern plastic box like that where it would not fit to a new standard light fixture. If he could take some pics of how it mounts, the backside, bracket, whatever and tell us exactly what doesn't line up with what maybe there is a solution.
That's funny. You took my comment completely wrong, insulted me and called me out directly. Then when I point out your error, you once again comment on my posts and suggest (demand?) I "leave it at that".
Look, you misunderstood a post that was nothing more than an explanation as to why someone would reply to a 6 year old thread. What you should have taken as being in defense of you, you took as condescending. That, my friend, is on you, not me.
to help clarify, there is only one picture available on Home Depot website, none of the back of light. here is a pic of the 2 boxes in question. the one the left has the design the light is can fit into. yellow represents the base of the light.
the box I have installed is the one on the right. notice the difference in hole alignment. this is the best I can do to identify problem. need to replace one box with the other to make it work.
Ah, I get it now. some of the working bits of the fixture actually protrude into the box, and it's poorly designed because if it were designed right it'd have clearance for that box.
Can you cut part of the light away to make it work? That'd be easiest. (I can't tell without seeing pics of the back of the light.) NB: that will of course void the UL listing and a kitten will die with every light you so modify. YHBW.
Next suggestion, if that won't work. You should be able to tell which side of the box the stud is on. If you can't, try probing around the edge of it with a piece of stiff wire; that should solve it.
Then, take a sawzall and cut the box in two places near where the nail tabs are located. BE VERY CAREFUL not to get near any cables. If you cut through the jacket of any cables you just made yourself a LOT more work. Turn the power off to that fixture before you do it, for obvious reasons. That should weaken the box enough that if you set a piece of dowel, socket extension, something against the back of the box and smack it with a hammer, it should break apart and go up into the ceiling, where you can retrieve the pieces and then remove the nail on bits from the stud. Sawzall will help here too.
To install a new box, either use a metal box with a bar hanger as I suggested in a previous post (you install the bar hanger separately from the box, is how this can work with only a 4" access hole.) You will need a little bit of wire to do this as if you use a metal box code requires that you attach the ground wire to the box. If it is long enough you might be able to wrap it around the box's ground screw and still have enough left to wire nut to the fixture's ground wire. Alternately, if the drywall is solid and your new light is not too heavy, they make blue plastic "old work" boxes with tabs that clamp the box to the drywall itself; I think someone suggested that as well. Like this:
formatting link
Note in the description it says "not intended for fixture support in ceilings" - use discretion here if the light is too heavy to be supported only by drywall nor not. Personally I would be more comfortable with the metal box/bar hanger solution.
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