How to remove and replace a snap ring in a FWD car

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wrote:

Just looked at your webpage/write up. Nice job.
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Thanks for asking. Thanks for noticiing.
I'm fine. The seat belt worked or I might have gotten hurt. I guess the car suddenly went from 30 to about 10, and gradually came to a stop.
The doctor sent me for an MRI of my back because I have some back pain, not crippling by any means but substantial at times.
I also have very mild claustrophobia. Elevators don't bother me. I've even been caving where I had to crawl 6 or 10 feet with only 2 or 3 inches of clearance above my back, and I didn't like it but I didnt' panic either.
But gaining 50 pounds has made the claus. worse, it seems. And my first two failures at the MRI have made it worse yet.
I only lasted 2 minutes at the first MRI, and the second time they gave me valium, but even then I only lasted 5. For the third try the doctor gave me 3 pills. 1 mg each of generic Atavan, lorezepam iirc. I never get side effects from drugs. They always do just what they're supposed to and no more. Until this one. It said to take 90 minutes in advance, so I did, and 60 minutes later I set out for the 5 minute drive to the radiology place.
I felt fine, but I stopped late for the first stop sign, and the second, so I recalibrated how soon I put my foot on the brake and how hard I pushed, and got the 3rd and 4th stop signs right. Then I was in my lane and a car was coming in the other lane, and for extra caution I often move over half a lane (except in rush hour that lane at this place is always empty) and I did, but I hadn't recallibrated that one yet, and I moved over a little more than a lane and hit the curt, where it resumes after a driveway.
By the time I took a taxi to the clinic, I was too late to get the MRI.
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On 10/2/2014 10:38 PM, micky wrote: Until this one. It said to take 90 minutes in advance,

Sorry to hear that caused trouble. Would it make sense to have a friend or relative drive, to and from the hospital after you've taken brain altering medication? I know, that's sort of obvious, looking back at the matter.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:38:04 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

You would think that a doctor that was prescribing the one time administration of 3mg of a powerful sedative would advise the patient to have someone else do the driving. If he didn't do that, I'd make sure you point that out to them. What you're describing isn't some unusual, rare, unlikely reaction to the drug. It's kind of what that class of drugs do in normal use. They calm you down and put you somewhat out of it. How out of it depends on the person, their tolerance, and how much they take.
If you routinely took them and had more experience with them, it would be one thing. But to give them to someone for a one time procedure and not tell them to get someone else to drive would be really, really bad. If a cop had showed up, it's even possible you would have been charged with DWI. If I were the Dr., I'd not only tell you, I'd get you to sign something in writing acknowledging it.
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On 10/3/2014 9:10 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Wonder if the same doctor also told him to pull the handle in the passenger compartment before going to lift the hood?
I think I remember that doctor told me to put a ball valve after the water pressure meter. I was going to, but I was too stoned off my ass, and could not find the blow torch. So, I drove home.
Love ya, Mom!
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:43:13 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband

Thanks for the suggestion. I did have frame damage one time in 1970, when I lent my car and he ran a stop sign in a school zone (It was summer but the school sign and the stop sign were still there.) and got hit broadside. I could tell the frame was bent because the positioning-pins for the convertible top no longer went right up to the holes they fit into. They were about an inch off. In those days, what I heard was that frames could not be reliably straightened, that they would spring back, and indeed, my own car got normal again a year or two later, and a couple years after that, went back to the way it was after the accident. But it handled fine.

I'll do that.

No, like everyone else, you're assuming they have holes in the ends.
I should have said explicitly that they don't, but I was concentrating on what they do.
Tegger is right about needing cup-end, but they are not common. I've googled for "cup end" directly and if that is not the right name, I looked at all the snap-ring pliers that Grainger sells, Autozone (a lot more than are in the store). I should try Snap-On and I forget the other big name in auto tools. None at Snap-on afaict.
I still have to finish the brake job. I"ll try to see if, with the proper pliers if they make them I could have used cup-end pliers from the side, the wheel well. But I doubt it. The "tulip" is in the way, so I can only see the ring from an angle, and the pliers would have to 15 to 18" long.
Length would not be a problem if they made pliers I could use from underneath, shaped like an F, where the squeezing was at the bottom and the two jaws were the horizontal parts of the F. They could make such things, but I don't think they do. Since the ends of the snap ring were at 8 and 10, the pliers would come up along side the drive shaft, and the cup would hold the ends of the ring.
They do make a socket ratchet where one turns the socket by squeezing the handles at the end, for places where there is no room to move the whole wrench.

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micky wrote:
SNIP

What you are looking for are lock ring pliers. BUT the type you need are usually sold as transmission tools.
What should work in place of them are hose clamp pliers used for the round spring clamps. But unless you really need them I'd go a cheaper route.
Start with something like these
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pliers/15-inch-long-reach-locking-pliers-97609.html or http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pliers/16-inch-long-reach-pliers-set-38598.html
Open the jaws and grind a groove in them in the direction you need.

--
Steve W.

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While you're looking at this photo, please note the yellow circle and the hole inside it. That's the hole for the "bearling locking bolt". My next post hav a story about that.

You're both right. There are no bent ends in that picture. The ring has bounced around and the open part, with the bent ends, is facing up, out of view. Even though the open part, where there is no groove, is to the left. You might have been able to see the boundary between groove and no-groove but the ring is in the way.

No, the old axle is out, and the new axle is in. The problem was that the snap ring was not in yet and I was doubting if I could get it in.

Yes, that's right. "The rest" would have been just putting in the snap ring, but in practice would also mean putting the wheel hub on the axle, tightening the axle nut, connecting the ball joint to the lower suspension arm, putting on the brake rotor and finishing the brake job, and a couple little things.

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wrote:

.....

Thank you.
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 05:59:42 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Only if I couldn't get the snap ring back in. That would be a big defeat. I got it in so there's no need to take it to a mechanic.
Despite all the methods discussed in the thread by people who have never even seen the car, let alone replaced the snap ring, my method is quicker, easier, and thus better than the theirs or the ones on on the webpages. That was the point of the original post.

Sure pros can do it faster than I can, but that's true about almost every project discussed on this ng. Why do you bring it up for this one?
You already know this: People do things themselves for the pride they have in doing their own work, for the knowledge they have that either no corners were cut or what corners were cut**, to save money, and sometimes because though it takes a long time the first time, it takes much less time the next time***. I may have left out some reasons.
**compared to when a pro does it and the owner has no idea what corners he's cut. For example, I removed the bearing lock bolt, and the piece of rubber that should be there is not attached. Maybe it's still up in the hole (I'll check), maybe it fell out when I took the bolt out (though I looked and couldn't find it.) or maybe a previous mechanic had it fall off and he just put the bolt back without the rubber part. Maybe that was okay, but maybe it wasn't. At any rate, he surely didn't tell the car's owner.
***Of course by the sixth time it seems a lot like work, but I don't have to worry about that yet.

I'd tell them the situation before I got there and they'd agree to do it or not. I have the use of a car so I could go to each place and discuss it in person.
The shop would insist on inspecting to whatever extent they can all of my work and on finiishing the job themselves.
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On Friday, October 3, 2014 12:46:00 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Because in your original post, you said this:
"I knew about the snap ring from the shop manual, but the Toyota shop manuals (Factory Service Manuals some call them) are not great, and even finding the snap ring was hard.
Moderately hard to remove, and I figured I wouldn't replace it myself, but I'd take it to a repair shop after I did most of the worlk. "
That sure sounds like you were saying the plan from the start was to do the work up to the snap ring, then have the car towed to a mechanic. All I'm saying is that if you planned to have it towed to a mechanic to finish the job all along, you're probably not saving much, because with the right tools, eqpt and experience, the work up to that point goes quickly too.

It's not what you left out, it's what you put in, ie the part where you seem to be saying that the plan from the beginning was to tow it to a mechanic eventually anyway to finish the job. If you';re going to do the job youself, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's just a little weird to plan to do what probably takes a pro an hour to do and then plan to take it to a pro to finish. If you have to pay to tow the car twice, instead of just tow it once to a repair shop you typically use, that could wipe out a good portion of the savings too, no?

Seems you'd still have that potential problem with the 1/2 and 1/2 approach too.

You can do what you want. I'm just saying the half and half approach to save maybe an hour of shop time, doesn't seem worth it to me. If the half and half approach came into play only because you got stuck on that snap ring and couldn't finish it, you weren't planning that from the start, then it's a different story.
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 06:31:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Sorry. As long as my posts are, I still leave ambiguous parts. I meant that I would drive to the mechanic and he would do nothing but put the snap ring in, because everything else was done.
I didnt' realize the snap ring was essential. I figured that out when I put the axle nut on and tightened it and eventually noticed that I had pulled the axle to the right so far that the middle bearing had fallen out of the bearing carrier. The snap ring goes into a groove inthe bearing carrier and would have prevented that. I thought that the bearing locking bolt would keep t he bearing from coming out when I tightened the bolt, but maybe without the rubber part, that bolt isn't long enough. Or maybe that bolt is only to keep the outer race of the bearing from spinning, and not from movign sideways.

And even that part was not planned all along. It wasn't until I finally found the lock ring and took it out that I realized it woudl be hard to get back in. (and I've worked on similar things before) At least with a screwdriver or pliers. (Not only would copper wire do a good job replacing the snap ring, nylon string would be strong enough, and a good way to replace it, and to remove it in the first place. But I didn't know that yet.)

Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Two boring paragraphs: (I also don't have a repair shop I typically use. One gas station replaced the shop part with a convenience store. Another that I liked changed ownership (and I can't find where he moved to, even though I had his card and his name. I suspect he's in another business.) and when I had a flat tire patched under the new owners, the employee talked about how he didn't like police. Police have hassled me too for no good reason, but I don't say that out fo the blue and he struck me as not trustworthy, and the third one in walking distance did something I didn't like too.
I have recommendations for a place 3 miles away, who doesn't even sell gas, but I haven't met him For the convertible top shop, I put my bicycle in the trunk and ride the bike back and forth, but I really want some place closer. I guess I"m hoping one of the first 3 will be sold again and I'll like the new owner/manager. I warned you it was boring!

Right.
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:27:31 -0400, Stormin Mormon

I've been forced to get friends to drive me for other reasons, but I didn't want to keep asking them, and I'll need them for other things. Most people I know work and can't do this. . What I should have done is go there 90 minutes in advance, take the pills then, and wait as long as it takes afterwards until they wear off. There's even a restaurant there and a bunch of grass and trees for reading and sleeping.

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On 10/3/2014 10:58 AM, micky wrote:

Since my Dad died, I've got a lot fewer people I can ask for rides. Sounds like your idea to spend more time at the hospital is excellent.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Friday, October 3, 2014 10:58:38 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That would certainly be a lot better than driving yourself. But I've noticed effects with similar drugs even 24 hours later where I'm making mistakes due to the effects. Like going to the fridge to get two things, and only coming back with one. More subtle than what happened to you, but it still could lead to a potential accident.
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 06:10:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

If you get bored, where it says THIS IS INTERESTING is by far the most interesting.
I was slightly mad at him, because he didn't, but from a logical pov, I looked on line at the side effects and I knew there were the ones below. I relied on the fact that when I left the house I didn't feel any side effects and that I never -- until now -- get side effects.
For example, antihistamines don't make me sleepy, not a bit. I've taken antibiotics; and when I was mistakenly diagosed with epilepsy, I took 3 different anti-convulsants at the same time for at least a month, and I had no side effects (and no intended effect since I never had epilepsy, the third specialist and co-developer of the EEG told me). And for 30 days I took benzedrine by prescription and it had no effect at all. There were probably more.

I sent him an email explaining why I still hadn't had the MRI and asking for something to take and I think his secretary called me to tell me the prescription had been sent to my usual pharmacy.
But I did read the side effects and I actually didn't have any of them.
drowsiness. dizziness. tiredness. weakness. dry mouth. diarrhea. nausea. changes in appetite. and others
What I had might be called loopiness. Maybe I'm too literal for them, and they would call that drowsiness, even though I didn't feel like sleeping.
THIS IS INTERESTING. I had looked at several webpages before, but none had pictures of the pills. http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/lorazepam The plastic pill bottle, which I'm sure I still have, was labeled 1mg. (I looked) but the pills were pentagonal, like the Pentagon of the Defense Department. The first row of pictures has the only pentagonal pills like the Pentagon and not like a house**, and they are 2mg. He prescribed 3 of them. So maybe I got 6 mg. instead of the 3 he intended me to take. I think I must have. Since I didn't have the MRI yet, I was going to ask him for more pills, so we'll see what they give me the next time.
**The second in the row is shaped like a house. The third is shaped like the Pentagon.
(Because of another foul-up, this will be the third time I get pills. The first *two* times, the pills were shaped the same. Ironically, this gave me confidence they were the right pills. It increases the odds they'll give me the wrong pills again.)
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