How to measure casement window opening?


I want to replace a double casement over my sink with a 2 view slider.
I hear that casement openings can be tricky to measure, but mine looks pretty straight forward.
The window is set back a little over an inch from the front of the opening and looks to me like when I remove it, I'll have an opening with four flat sides with some holes where the hardware is mounted.
From what I can see, it looks to me like I should simply measure from side to side and top to bottom on the interior of the opening.
Am I missing anything? What should I be looking for?
It takes a week (from Tuesday to Tuesday) for my supplier to get a window, so I guess I could take the existing window out and see what I really have, then board it up for a week or so until the window comes in. I know that would work, but I doubt the pros would ever do it that way.
Any suggestions? Thanks!
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

Visit a HD or Lowes (Or both) there should be info there and even a book to look at.
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I doubt a Home Depot or Lowes would be any help.
Even the window supplier that I am using suggested that perhaps I should offer a contractor a small fee to measure the window "on his way home or if he was in the neighborhood" to make sure I got the measurements right.
The supplier knows me, since I measured for the 12 double hungs (6 different sizes) that I replaced last year and got them all right, so I pretty sure I know what I'm doing. However, this talk of "casements windows can be tricky" has me second guessing myself.
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"DerbyDad03" wrote

EXT gave good advice here. There are several measurement points involved, not just the obvious 'up down, side side'. Depth of fitting and what Mom told me was 'rill depth' (I do not know if she used right term, am not a professional window person).
Last time I did this was 1974 and I took the window out, frame and all, covered opening with plywood, and Mom took me and the window to the store. Back then, you didn't contract via the internet for a shipped one. I noted one side had been shimmed with 1/4 inch soft pine, by the removal time slightly compressed. Evidently a weather expansion/contraction element in that case? We replicated it with the new one and had no problems in an area with significant temp shifts from 110F to -5F at the extreme ends.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

Lordy. Pull off the interior trim (you'll have to do this anyway) and measure the rough opening stud to stud, and sill to header. THAT is the measurement your window guy needs. Or are you trying to retrofit the slider into the existing jambs or something crazy like that? May or may not work- unlike vanilla double-hung windows, there is no standard way of framing casement windows- sometimes all those edges where the window makes a seal, are milled right into the casing. For over the sink where you will be staring at it from 2 feet away every day, I think you will be happier with an actual 'old work' replacement window, rather than a kludged up insert. Not like a bedroom where curtain is usually closed, and you only glance at it a few seconds a day.
-- aem sends...
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wrote:

DITTO...BTDT.....
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benick wrote:

Unless it is a brick exterior, or other situation where the siding opening is less than the rough opening -you would want the window to fit without alot of additional work. In that case match the "frame size"
MikeB
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Are you using "replacement" windows that sit inside the old frame, if it is still solid, or are you using "new construction" windows that sit within the house frame?
If you are using the first, you need the measurements of the clear opening available within your existing window's outer frame after you remove all removable items. Your manufacturer will tell you if you need to deduct anything from the measurements that you end up with.
If you are using the second, you need to remove the window casing on the inside and measure the outside of the old window frame, be sure that it hasn't been shimmed up to accommodate the wall thickness with narrower material than the actual frame is made with. Check outside to see if there are any additional constraints such as bricks and other trim that can complicate the installation.
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Thanks...I am using replacement windows and I know that I "need the measurements of the clear opening available within my existing window's outer frame after I remove all removable items."
As I said in my most recent post, this is not my first time at this rodeo, having measured for, and replaced, 12 double hung windows, of 6 different sizes over the past year.
The issue is that I keep hearing that what you see when you look at an existing casement window - one that is not a replacement window - you might not be seeing the actual rough opening. Part of the visible trim and/or opening might actually be part of the window itself. On the other hand, it might be as simple as measuring just like you would for a double hung - side to side and up and down, in three different lolcations.
What I'm specifically asking about is how do you tell the difference between a simple "side to side/up and down" measurement of the exposed opening and the more complicated "the whole frame is part of the window" measurement.
Is there some way to tell by looking at the existing casement?
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"DerbyDad03" wrote "EXT" wrote:

Derby, this is *key*. EXT knows much more than I do. So, if anything conflicts, go with his (grin, presume he just like most presume I am a 'he')

Not as far as I know. BTW, I am not sure why 'replacement window' vs existing casement window is an issue here because to me, they are the same thing when it comes to this. Kinda self trained. Used to working long ago on anything from 150 years old, to 20 years old. Bugged the guys at the various local hardware places for knowledge which they freely gave once they realized I was serious. (Back then, 'women' and especially child females didnt do stuff like that).
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re: BTW, I am not sure why 'replacement window' vs existing casement window is an issue here because to me, they are the same thing when it comes to this.
I guess I'm not explaining this very well, so I'll try again.
When I replaced all the double hung windows in my house, the measurements were pretty simple. The windows had wooden sashes that rode up and down in aluminum tracks with springs inside plastic tubes as "counterweights". It was easy to slip thin strips of material between the tracks and the interior stops to determine the width measurement of the rough opening without taking the window out. The height was even easier since the top and bottom of the rough opening were exposed when the windows were open. There was no question as to what was part of the window and what was the rough opening.
Obviously a casement window is different. This a double wooden casement with a center mullion. The unit appears to have been built into the rough opening, probably when the house was built. That is what I meant when I said it is not a replacement window.
When I face the window, I see the trim that is attached to the wall on both sides and the top, with about an 1/8" reveal of the wood that makes up the sides and top of the opening itself. i.e. the two side pieces that face each other and the top piece that faces downward towards the sill within the window opening itself.
What I don't know is this:
Is the wood that is inside the opening *part of the window itself* or *part of the rough opening*? In other words, if I removed the trim from the walls, would I find that the casement window is inside a frame that has to be removed (resulting in a larger rough opening than is currently visible) or do the 2 windows, the center mullion and the hardware come out, leaving the side and top pieces of wood as the rough opening that my vinyl slider will fit into? Unless the sill is part of the frame also, it doesn't appear that the pieces in question are part of a frame, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
If the casement doesn't have a frame that has to come out, then the trim doesn't have to be removed/repainted/etc. The window is sandwiched between cabinets and if I don't have to remove the trim or disturb the wood inside the opening the installation will be as easy as the double hungs were.
I hope that makes my question clearer.
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DerbyDad03 wrote: (snip)

Okay, THAT is why people are getting confused. That is NOT the rough opening. That is the 'inside the jamb' dimensions. Rough opening is the dimensions of the hole in the wall framing that the jamb fits into, stud to stud, and sill to header. What you described is the dimensions for a sash replacement kit, not a replacement window. I guess some vendors actually sell a whole new thin-framed window to fit inside those dimensions, but most people prefer to either just replace the sashes, or replace the whole window, so as to not end up with visibly smaller windows.
Again, you may or may not be able to reuse the old jamb from the kitchen casement windows- depends how it is designed, and how the jamb was milled. If it is all milled out of one board on each side, you likely would have a lot of chisel and router work to get it flat enough to attach anything to. If it is a regular jamb with attached inner pieces, you could peel those out. No way to tell without seeing it, and prying at the joints with a sharp putty knife.
-- aem sends...
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"aemeijers" wrote

Hehe happens to us all!

Correct. Ya beat me to it.
Derby, you will at the least have to remove one top or bottom piece, and one side piece of your outer window framing. Depending on how it's attached, this might be pretty simple. Rubber mallet and a sharp wedge, tap gently to loosen it without splitting (do this evenly all around so it comes off in one piece). May need touchup paint when you put it back on, but might not (grin).
We had to do this with the inner side of a bathroom window the renters damaged. The inner side was framed with a matching 'rough hewn-look' stained knotty pine (it's on all the walls). I did not want to try to match the color or find pieces so we took that off ourselves and put it back up when the main replacement was done (we had several wndows including a triple picture frame that had to be replaced and a package deal made that one done for virtually only the cost of the window). The outer frame had to come off for measurements. Took me about 30 mins, 15 of which was the top piece because it was difficult to angle the tools up there right.
Oh, for the wedge you want one sharply angled (very thin, see if you can find one with a hardened rubberized covering over the tip). This will protect the wood. One of my odd carpentry tools. Father in law had it and passed it to us when I recognized it having used one as a kid. I have no idea what the proper name for it is. Probably has a fancy name other than 'rubberized wedge'.
Speak of the devil! I tried a google and here it is close enough to mine.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6943600/Multi-Wedge-Trim-Panel-Tools.html?tp 0
Don't skip the mallet or you may split the wood.
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re: Derby, you will at the least have to remove one top or bottom piece, and one side piece of your outer window framing.
Maybe...maybe not.
I guess it depends on what you are calling the "outer window framing".
There is the trim on the wall, then the jamb pieces (at a right angle to the trim), then a strip of molding that acts as the "inside stop" for each sash. This molding is on both sides and across the top.
I think that if I remove that strip of molding, I'll be able to see how the sash and jamb interact. If the jamb is flat behind both the trim and the sashes, then that is what I can call the "opening" and use those dimensions for the slider. Those would be same dimensions that I have already measured. If I see anything other than a flat jamb, then I'll need to pull the trim off the wall and dig deeper.
Thanks for the help.
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"DerbyDad03" wrote "cshenk" wrote:

Terminology can be tricky. I don't have any professional training so sometimes i find the word i used, isnt the right one.

The trim is what has to come off.

Yup! You just need to check behind that.

Welcome! Hey, I am asking for some too in another thread. My flowering pear tree fell on my house ;-) Was not a wise choice of tree type to get and it split in half last night (so I took the day off to deal with it). Tree now professionally removed including stump. Now looking at ideas for a suitable tree. Grin, I see there are replies and probably didnt give enough info!
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Thanks aem, what you say make sense, for the most part.
However, I would like to comment on this statement:
"What you described is the dimensions for a sash replacement kit, not a replacement window"
I hear what you are saying, but to some extent I disagree.
If I were able to remove all the parts of the casement window back to the jambs (which would leave me with a 38 1/2" x 37 3/4") opening, I could certainly buy a 2 view slider *replacement window* to fit into the opening. That way I would not have to remove any trim or jamb. Based on my measurements of the existing frames around each sash and the frame around a 2-view slider, the glass area of the window will be the same. (I am not going with a replacement casement because I know that the center mullion is considerably wider than on wooden casements or vinyl sliders.)
I guess it time to start pulling the trim pieces around the sashes themselves to see how the window was installed.
Thanks again.
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"DerbyDad03" wrote

Grin, tagged it there. Answer went in reply to aem.
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