How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a short time?

[micky]

How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a short time?

I'm still working on putting in a polycarbonate (lexan) replacement for the broken glass rear window in my convertible.

Because I'm working alone, I thought it would be good if I could "glue" the polycarbonate or its vinyl backing sheet to the vinyl** strip (part of the rear curtain) that the glass was bonded to originally.

**At least I think it's vinyl. It's black and shiny (where it used to be fused to the glass) and flexible and 7/8" wide and maybe 3/16" thick, and can be seen behind the edge, the outside 7/8" of many, most, or all convertible rear windows. if you peek under the outside layer of the top.

Then if they were glued together, when i drilled a hole, I would drill through the carbonate and the vinyl at the same time, and the holes would match.

The bond doesn't have to last more than 30 minutes if things go well. And I can redo the bond if things go badly and take too long.

And it only has to be strong enough to hold the vinyl in place. The way the top works, the vinyl is held up pretty much already. (Although I may have to lower the top a bit to pull the upper fabric back from over the border strip where the vinyl is.

Any suggestions about adhesive?

I was thinking of contact adhesive, At the url I posted in the immediately preceding OP, someone says "[Contact bond adhesives] are almost a "universal" general purpose cement, and will bond a variety of substrates to one another such as wood, leather, metal, etc." Does that include polycarbonate and vinyl????

I also wanted to use an adhesive to bond the vinyl to steel washers, so they would stay in place while i'm outside the car. I'd put the pop rivets in to several holes, go inside the car and push the washers up the pop-rivet, where some kind of glue would hold them in place, until I could go back outside and crimp the rivets. (I've done tests and know how to use pop-rivets without breaking the lexan.)

Any suggestions here?

Here also I am thinking of contact cement. I bought a fresh bottle

The temperature tomorrow is supposed to be about 51 and Monday about 58, but I can use a hair dryer if needed to speed contact cement or other drying,

Thanks a lot.

[J Burns]

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as rubber cement. Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll hold together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of tape over the rivet and washer.

The FAQ says dew point is important. If it's high, relative humidity will be high. I don't think the rubber cement I used to use, would cool a surface enough to matter unless it was really humid.

Through this page, I got a link, under Observations, to weather readings, including dew point, taken every 20 minutes at the local airport.

[nestork]

Would double sided carpet tape work?

After you drilled your holes, you could peel the tape off of both the vinyl and the steel washers.

Double sided carpet tape has a good initial grab, and it's meant to be pulled off the floor and off the carpet backing without leaving any adhesive residue behind.

There is also double sided mounting tape for mounting mirror tiles on walls (or ceilings). Mounting tape is much less expensive because it's a smaller roll, more difficult to remove and leaves an adhesive residue behind. Mineral spirits (often called "paint thinner") will remove the glue residue from double sided mounting tape.

A third option might be to use acrylic or silicone caulk as a weak adhesive. Acetone will remove acrylic caulk and shouldn't harm PVC (vinyl) but I don't know about polycarbonate (check first). Acetone is commonly sold as nail polish remover, so you can buy a small bottle of it for a few dollars, or a gallon for about $20. Silicone caulk can be removed with mineral spirits. Dow Corning's "Silicone-Be-Gone" is nothing more than gelled mineral spirits which shouldn't harm either vinyl or polycarbonate plastic (but check first).

[rbowman]

Rubber cement is a different animal to contact cement. It's primary use is paste ups in the original meaning of cut and paste where you want to be able to peel the artwork and cement off. Contact cement is for keeps.

[Frank]

Tape sounds like a good idea. Mineral spirits should not attack vinyl or polycarbonate but I would avoid acetone or semi-polar solvents:

[micky]

Is that really the same thing? I never owned my own bottle of rubber cement. It was something children whose family splurged on things had, but somehow I remember it being more consistant or pleasant in appearance.

I was going to go back later and put something over them. Caulk, maybe. I was going to use waxed paper to keep the stuff from sticking to or even getting on the canvas above it. Or maybe parchment paper is stronger and easier to pull off. I bought a roll of that because someone told me to, but I'll never use it all.

I read that too. I can't imagine contact cement causing condensation, but I guess if I ran a factory, I'd be happy to be warned.

Thanks. It will take a while to peruse this. I'm sending this paragraph to a friend, too. She really likes weather.

[J Burns]

What's the definition of contact cement? Isn't it what will stick to itself after drying on two surfaces? Naturally, they aren't all the same.

[micky]

You have a bunch of good ideas. I'll t hink about them tonight, and when I wait for it to warm up a little tomorrow. I may dream about them. :-) I have some carpet tape somewhere, I think I know where, and I have some double-sided linoleum tape, from when I was about to buy a new kitchen floor. and I know where that is. (It might be the same thing but a little thinner.)

I have a bag of double-sided mounting tape scraps too. I know where that is. And there is more at Home Depot, only a mile away.

I don't know why I thought only of glue and not about tape. Maybe because I was 20 years old (1967) or more before they invented, or at least I heard of, double-sided tape.

Unless the tape is pretty thick, I don't think I'd have to remove it.

A wonderful answer. I salute you and Canada.

[Terry Coombs]

The point is that they are two totally different types of adhesive - as bowman said . While rubber cement can be used in a permanent bond (leatherwork comes to mind) contact cement is always permanent .

[rbowman]

Whatever you want it to be. Yes, what is sold as rubber cement and contact cement are usually based on synthetic rubber, latex or neoprene, in a solvent of some sort. Yes, if you put stationery store rubber cement on both surfaces it will adhere to itself, although it's commonly just spread on one surface. So as far as that goes it's semantics.

However if you're mounting photos in your scrapbook and you want a temporary bond and use DAP contact cement, you will be disappointed. Similarly if you're laminating a formica countertop and stop by Staples for a bottle of Elmer's rubber cement you're not going to be too happy either.

[micky]

You have a bunch of good ideas. I'll t hink about them tonight, and when I wait for it to warm up a little tomorrow. I may dream about them. :-) I have some carpet tape somewhere, I think I know where, and I have some double-sided linoleum tape, from when I was about to buy a new kitchen floor. and I know where that is. (It might be the same thing but a little thinner.)

I have a bag of double-sided mounting tape scraps too. I know where that is. And there is more at Home Depot, only a mile away.

I don't know why I thought only of glue and not about tape. Maybe because I was 20 years old (1967) or more before they invented, or at least I heard of, double-sided tape.

Unless the tape is pretty thick, I don't think I'd have to remove it.

A wonderful answer. I salute you and Canada.

[rbowman]

See my other answer for the semantics. It all depends on what the meaning of is is, but in common usage I guess you could say they differ in bond strength and intended usage. Rubber cement might be what you're looking for as a temporary low strength adhesive that's easy to remove.

[rbowman]

Acetone can cause cracking in polycarbonates. Definitely avoid methylene chloride -- that what you use to solvent weld polycarbonate.

[micky]

Good point. Thanks.

[J Burns]

I don't know what's in the bottle Micky bought, but he didn't say he was laminating a formica countertop. He wants it to hold vinyl in place long enough to drill holes and crimp rivets. Rubber cement sounds ideal.

If he bought some other kind of contact cement, it would be applied in the same way except maybe for drying time. He wants to be able to undo it if things go wrong. Rubber cement sounds just right.

Frank mentioned something that hadn't occurred to me, that some solvents in some cements damage polycarbonate.

[J Burns]

Don't the cements for countertops use natural rubber and neoprene?

Slime rubber cement has a different intended usage and apparently a higher bond strength than Elmer's.

[rbowman]

Yes. Like I said, it's not chemistry but the different characteristics of the products referred to as 'rubber' or 'contact' cement. Beer and Everclear are both alcohol; are they the same or different?

For patching tubes? Now you're getting into cold vulcanizing rubber cement. I believe there is some polymerization involved with those. Same basic stuff but there are horses for courses. Try to use Elmer's on your bicycle tube and it won't last long. The patch will peel away, and if you rub the cement area it will roll away in little balls. DAP contact cement isn't much better.

I never tried using tube cement as a general purpose contact cement but I don't think that would work well either.

[rbowman]

Yeah, in this case Elmer's rubber cement from Staples probably will work great.

Polycarbonate is more resistant than the acrylics (plexiglas) but acetone, which shows up in a lot of places, is a problem

It's a strange interaction where stress and a little acetone don't mix. Methylene chloride is used for solvent welding PC so it should be avoided.

Elmers is mostly heptane with a little isopro.

shows good resistance to hexane and fair to iso, so it shouldn't be a problem.

On the other hand, Weldwood contact cement's vehicle is primarily toluene with a dask of MEK for spice, both of which are listed as poor resistance.