How to complain to the FTC and/or FCC about deceptive advertising

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On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 22:16:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

No it's not. That's RAM.
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:09:59 -0500, K Wills wrote:

Exactly!
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On 04/07/2014 07:17 AM, Danny D. wrote:

flash storage card that is permanently installed inside your device. It CAN be changed. The contents of the space available to the user, whatever it may be, can be written to, erased, or altered. Even the contents NOT available to the user may be altered by anybody with administrative (root) privileges.
It would be much more accurate if you were to use the term "internal storage," rather than "memory" or "ROM."
The term my tablet uses, "internal SD card," would also be acceptable, but more confusing.
Under "Storage" in "Settings," my tablet lists "RAM," "Internal SD card," "External SD Card," and "USB disk." I'm allowed to move most apps "to SD card" to free up RAM, but only to the internal card.
I'd speculate that there're very good reasons not to allow moving apps or their essential data to an external card. The external card is easily removed. If you attempt to use an app from a card that isn't there, it could crash the system. Also, for security reasons. If the card is easily removed, it's easily read by malefactors, or replaced with one that has had malware implanted on it.
TJ
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On Monday, April 7, 2014 10:59:58 AM UTC-4, TJ wrote:

Last time I checked, permanent and "can be changed" were mutually exclusive. And the flash inside the phone is not a card, it's a chip soldered to the PC board. You can't change it. You can add a flash card, but that can't be used for apps, only data.
The contents of the space available to the user,

I agree. Flash memory would be an even better and correct term. But you can blame confusion there on Tmobile and LG. They both call it ROM. It's not ROM, it's Flash memory, but apparently they are not the only companies who have incorrectly used the terms.

That's a lame excuse. If an app isn't there and you attempt to run it, it's going to crash the OS? Good grief. What kind of primitive half-assed OS would that be?
Also, for security reasons. If the card is

Irrelevant because you can similarly compromise any removable storage media. And I haven't seen any instance of the alleged problem even reported. But there do seem to be some folks pissed because Google took out the ability to store apps on expansion memory. The real reason remains unknown.

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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:10:50 -0500, K Wills wrote:

Ooooops. I had meant T-Mobile.
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:10:50 -0500, K Wills wrote:

I have all the calls documented, with the later ones having a known-to-T-Mobile witness (my wife) and I took down their employee IDs, all very visibly to them.
Only *after* I told them the FCC & FTC complaints, did they ever tell me the truth, which was that the phone is a 600MB phone.
It's all documented in the complaints (although limited to 1,000 and 3,000 words respectively).
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 04:38:49 -0500, VinnyB wrote:

I readily admit it was stupid of me to buy these phones since they are nearly unusable, out of the box due to the severe lack of storage space for apps.
And, I admit, I would *never* have bought these phones, had I known the truth, they they had only 600MB of ROM that could *not* be augmented by the 32GB microSD card for app storage.
However, as noted, none of the reviews that I listed prior even *mentioned* this fact inside the review. It's only in the user comments that it comes to light that the sdcard is essentially useless and that the phone is filled to the brim of its memory with non-removable apps.
But I'm not the only one who subsequently found these phones to be almost unusable, due to the misleading advertising, which intimates the sdcard is, somehow, usable, to augment the internal memory for app storage.
All I ask is for T-Mobile to tell the truth; but, I do agree with everyone that, if the truth were told, then nobody would buy these phones except the idiots like me, who fell for the misleading advertising.
Hence, the FTC and FCC complaints.
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On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:25:39 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:

Now "everybody" agrees that nobody would buy these entry level Android phones if they knew they couldn't load them up with more than 600MB of additional apps? Good grief. I'd buy one. I have a 4 month old similar Android and I'm very happy with it. It has twice that in free memory, but even if it only had 600MB left, I'm nowhere near that. What exactly is on those Tmobiles that take up so much more than the load on my phone is a good question.
And once again, despite all the bitching, we've yet to hear the list of apps that one expects to put on an entry level Android that total more than 600MB. I've put about a dozen on mine. Typical size is 5MB - 20MB. The only thing we heard so far was where you put 20 mapping apps on your personal phone, not the phone in question. You think that's a reasonable expectation for an entry level Android phone?
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 04:38:49 -0500, VinnyB wrote:

I'm sorry if I've confused you with the terms, "ROM" and "Total Internal Memory" but I don't know any better way to refer to what we're talking about.
They call it "ROM" on this T-Mobile support document, just like I do: https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5777
And, again, as I do, they call it "Total Internal Memory" on this LG specification document: http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-P769-optimus-l9/technical-specifications
So, you can refer to it any way you like, but I think we have been extremely specifically clear about what we have been talking about, all along.
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On Monday, April 7, 2014 7:31:17 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:

It really isn't ROM and then should not be calling it that. It's actually pretty bad, it seems they aren't the only company that's gone wrong here. ROM is Read Only Memory. It's either programmed by mask at the factory or field programmed one time. The latter isn't used anymore, it's been replaced long ago by Flash. ROM can't be changed. What these phones use are Flash and I believe like you do that what they are calling ROM is really Flash Memory. It holds the OS, apps, data, pics, etc. But they should either call it Flash or else refer to it as internal storage.
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 05:25:36 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

That's a very good question/suggestion!
I would "guess" (FWIW) that *some* of the apps a "typical" user /might/ want, might be (in no particular order) one or more of these freeware apps that I have on my personal Android phone:
An anonymity browser (e.g., Orbot) An anonymity search engine (e.g., DuckDuckGo) A task manager app (e.g., "Tasks") A memo program (e.g., Inkpad) A grocery list app (e.g., Out of Milk) A car finder (e.g., Find My Car) A gas station price finder app (e.g., GasBuddy) A barcode scanner (e.g., Barcode Scanner) A dashcam recorder (e.g., DashCam) A better hands-free voice-control app (e.g., Dragon Mobile Assistant) Offline map when cell signal is dodgy (e.g., Navigator) Offline backcountry mapping/tracking (e.g., My Tracks) A power minder (e.g., Battery Doctor) A flashlight app (e.g., TeslaLED) A VOIP app (e.g., Viber) An offline language translator (e.g., Google Translate) An automatic call recorder (e.g., Automatic Call Recorder) A backup app (e.g., Helium) An app killer/task manager (e.g., TasKiller Free) An history eraser (e.g., History Eraser) An Internet app to remotely control your PC (e.g., TeamViewer) A drawing app (e.g., Paper Artist) A photo editor (e.g., Pixir Express) An alternative keyboard (e.g., Swype) An anti-virus scanner (e.g., Avast!) A streaming music app (e.g., Songza) A fitness calorie counter (e.g., MyFitnessPal) A file navigator (e.g., ES File Explorer) A checking-account manager (e.g., Mint) A terminal emulator (e.g., Terminal Emulator) A PDF reader (e.g., Adobe Reader) An app manager (e.g., Clean Master) A memory manager (e.g., 1TapBoost) A level app (e.g., Power Bubble Spirit Level) A WiFi discovery app (e.g., InSSIDer) An installer hierarchy (e.g., FDroid) A speech-to text stenographer (e.g., Speech To Text) An FM radio app (e.g., TuneIn Radio) A screen recorder (e.g., ScreeenREC) An offline document browser (e.g., Pocket) A PowerPoint viewer (e.g., PowerPoint) An Excel viewer (e.g., Excel) A Word viewer (e.g., Word) A social-networking app (e.g., LinkedIn) A weather app (e.g., The Weather Channel) A document markup app (e.g., Skitch) A document scanner/pdf/ocr app (e.g., CamScanner) A caller-id white-pages lookup app (e.g., Current Caller ID) etc.
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On Monday, April 7, 2014 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:

Houston, we've found the problem.....
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On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 18:21:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

From PC Mag..
Bottom Line
The LG Optimus L9 is scarcely available, but if you can get it, it's the best MetroPCS smartphone that runs on T-Mobile's network right now.
Apparently, OTHER PEOPLE don't agree with you.
To reply by email, lose the Ks...
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Not exactly:
,---- [ ] | Memory | 1 GB RAM, 4 GB ROM | Supports up to 32 GB MicroSD card `----
Which isn't what the downloadable specification from LG USA says: <http://www.lg.com/us/support/products/documents/SpecSheet_LG_Optimus%20L9.pdf <http://preview.tinyurl.com/lgl67f6 ,---- [ ] | Memory: up to 4 GB Internal (external microSD slot is | expandable up to 32 GB) `----

4GB internal memory isn't much for a device running Android 4; Google's 'Nexus 5' (which is made by LG) comes with either 16GB or 32GB, for example.
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:25:39 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

You expected to load apps into *ROM*? (LOL) You didn't realize that ROM is ReadOnlyMemory, and you can't write to ROM?
HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
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On Monday, April 7, 2014 4:50:12 PM UTC-4, tlvp wrote:

They are incorrectly calling it ROM, but clearly it's Flash memory. It's the internal Flash memory that every Smartphone has. A cell phone would be useless without Flash to store apps, photos, etc. Plus they say it has 4GB of ROM, expandable to 32GB with an external card. Again, that's a Flash card, not ROM.
And if you want to claim that there is just 4 GB ROM and 1 GB, RAM, then where are all the apps, photos, music etc stored so that they don't disappear when the battery goes dead, you take the battery out, reboot, etc?
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:31:17 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

Indeed they do:
: Memory : 1 GB RAM, 4 GB ROM : Supports up to 32 GB MicroSD card
That shows you have only the 1 GB RAM available for writing to or erasing; and of that apparently only 600 MB remains for *you* to use. As for what the 4 GB worth of ROM space is good for, there's no way you'll ever be able to write to or erase any of it because it's *ROM*, not *RAM* :-) .
HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:17:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

I thought it might be a typo, but I don't really pay enough attention to which manufacturer makes what.
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:19:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

You need to be more careful with your wording. It's still a 4GB phone. It just has 600MB available for your use.

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wrote:

In Danny's defense, the PTB list it as ROM on the spec sheet.
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