If you feel like complaining about your cell phone, you get 1,000 characters
on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form:
In my case, I feel I was deceived by deceptive advertising on T-Mobile
LG Android phones which advertised 4GB of internal memory *plus* the
capability of a 32-GB external SD card (presumably for augmenting that
Nobody told me that, after Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich), apparently
you can't move any apps to the sd card, nor can you install apps onto the
SD card. If that is true (and I'm still confused whether that's the
case since it appears to be so for my phone but maybe not for others),
then I feel I was the victim of deceptive advertising.
Of course, that only holds sway if lots of other people feel the
same way (otherwise, I was just plain stupid).
So if you feel that you've been swayed by deceptive advertising into buying
an Android phone which subsequently turns out to be useless due to this
(or any other issue), I would encourage you to similarly complain using
the easy-to-use online forms referenced above.
FCC -> Wireless Telephone -> Unlawful advertising -> Deceptive or unlawful
advertising or marketing by a communications company
(does NOT include Telemarketing)
FTC -> Use the easy "Complaint Assistant"
PS: Don't tell my sister there is an easy-to-use "complaint assistant"! :)
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:45:02 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
How much memory did/does yours have?
I think the 32 Gigs is for storage, not memory. I suppose Android
could use space on the card for virtual memory, but it wouldn't be too
I began using Android with 2.3 (Gingerbread). Since at least
then, the ability to move apps to the SD card was impossible for me.
Though I've not bothered to try with 4.2 (Jelly bean).
A bit annoying since there are apps that I use, but not often.
I'd rather have them on a portable storage so that there is more room
on the phone's drive for things I use regularly.
Maybe. If your LG has less than the four GB of memory advertised,
it may be a manufacturing flaw. It's possible that, for whatever
reason, something wasn't installed, or was installed wrong, and that
had decreased the total amount of memory.
Or there may have been something that went wrong when loading the
OS that causes it to misread the total amount of memory.
Check your phone against others of the same model. Check the
memory. It should list something akin to:
Total Memory: 4GB
Usable memory: X (this will vary depending on what you have running at
any given time)
I don't see where anything you've described makes the phone
useless. Not as useful as it could be, perhaps, but not useless.
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:41:56 -0500, K Wills wrote:
I understand your point.
a. LG says it has 4GB of internal memory.
b. T-Mobile says it has 4GB of internal memory.
Therefore, I must assume the phone has 4GB of internal memory.
My question is, how is a consumer supposed to know that this 4GB
of internal memory turns into, in reality, only 600 MB of internal
memory for app and appdata storage?
Where is *that* information located?
It's not like that's not an important datapoint.
I feel the carrier should tell us this information *before*
we purchase the phone, since, I believe, it's impossible for
a consumer to *know* this important information without not only
having the phone in their hands, but also adding their google play
account and trying to install apps onto the SD card (and failing).
If the carrier won't tell us, how are we supposed to know that a
particular 4GB phone is, in reality, only a 600MB phone?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:41:56 -0500, K Wills wrote:
I'm not technically savvy, but, there (apparently) *are* ways to turn
the SD card into internal memory, and vice versa.
For example, googling, I find these, one of which which might swap
out the 4GB of internal memory for the 32 GB SD card (at the expense,
we presume, of speed):
"Mounts2SD is a customizable sd-ext control script that can be
used to move content to and from the second sdcard partition known
in Android as sd-ext."
"Move app in the easiest way。
• Move apps to SD card"
"Ever wanted to swap your internal sdcard and your external sdcard?
Yes, you can ! ... fix this annoying thing which make your phone
using only few GB when you a full 64GB or even a 32GB one...
it works with every devices with external sdcards"
If I ever figure out how to turn the 32 GB SD card into internal
memory (from Android's standpoint), do you know what the drawbacks
Perhaps 512-1024 MB RAM.
4GB are internal flash storage, equivalent to SSD disk,
called internal memory, what is rather confusing.
Nobody reasonable would said it means free 4GB.
Neither SSD or HD with installed OS is fully free.
Fact is, PC OSs occupy less relative portion on 80 GB SDD,
than Android on 4GB.
General vendor fault is they do not say
how much is left when Android and all preinstalled apps are in place,
as it is significant drop down for 4 GB only.
There is a good reason, why writers/directors do not repeat all
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 20:19:44 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
It probably does.
Your phone likely has the four GB offered. But, as with all
computing devises, this isn't the amount of free memory you'll be able
Probably near the bottom of a print ad. Along the bottom of the
screen for TV.
Since at least Gingerbread, installing to the SD has not been
possible. Or, at least, I've not been able. Although, as I mentioned
before, I've not tried with Jelly Bean.
I think you're confusing total memory with available memory.
Common sense should have let you know that you wouldn't have all four
GB of memory for use. The OS will use a good chunk. Then you add any
apps you're using.
When cryptography is outlawed,
bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
On Sunday, April 6, 2014 5:06:49 AM UTC-4, K Wills wrote:
Agree with the above. And even if you knew how much free memory
it had, I'm not sure how you'd know how to calculate what apps
you could install. I haven't really paid attention when installing
apps on my phone, but I don't even recall it saying how much memory
it needed as a minimum, etc. I can think of three possible solutions:
1 - Look at the apps that are installed and you can see on the phone
how much memory they take. Are there some big ones that he can do
2 - Is it possible that something is corrupted on the phone and it's
not actually that it's really out of memory? Like maybe some apps
didn't install or uninstall completely, etc? In that case, is there
some kind of cleaner utility available that he could run?
3 - Similar to #2, reset the phone to it's original state, start over
As for a legitimate consumer complaint, I don't think he has much of
one. Sounds like the phone does have 4GB of memory. They can't know what you
intend to load and maybe not even how much memory the phone will have
without any apps. I would think the OS size could increase after
you buy the phone if new releases come out, bugs are fixed, etc.
I have an Android I bought in Dec. It has 4GB Flash, 1GB ROM.
I've loaded probably a dozen apps. Just checked it and it shows I
have 1.95GB total space, 1.13 avail, apps are taking up .62GB. I don't
have much in the way of say photos or videos stored. But if that were
the problem, that can be re-located to external memory card,
leaving more space for apps.
On Sunday, April 6, 2014 5:53:30 AM UTC-4, Poutnik wrote:
If the Android OS is not stored in flash memory on the phone,
where is it stored? In the cloud and downloaded each time the
phone is rebooted? It has to be one or the other. I assumed
it's stored on the phone.
P.S.:What make me wonder is how much this initial free space
vary across vendors/models.
I remember my Sony Xperia M Dual 4GB with A4.2.2
had initially about 1.7 GB free of so.
Perhaps different bunches of nonOS preinstalled apps by vendors ?
Or big differences in size across different Android versions ?
There is a good reason, why writers/directors do not repeat
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 11:53:30 +0200, Poutnik wrote:
Actually, the fundamental root cause of my "problem", is that I
had (innocently) "thought" that we could MOVE (or delete)
pre-installed apps to the 32GB SD card, which, if true (as it
was in prior versions of Android), would make the 4GB ROM less
In fact, the carrier (T-Mobile) advertised that the 4GB phone
could be augmented with a 32GB microSD card, but, only *after*
I added the 32GB class 10 card did I realize that was a lie.
Google, apparently, prohibits moving of apps to the flash card,
so, the flash card is only useful for "user content" of which
there is none (simply because the phone is useless and therefore
has never been put in service).
NOTE: The story is complicated, because prior to Android 4.0,
Google allowed moving of apps; between 4.0 and 4.3 Google
disallowed moving of apps; and after 4.3, Google allowed
moving of apps if the developer enables it.
The other fundamental root cause of the "problem" is that there
is absolutely no way for a consumer to know that the 4GB phone
has only 600MB of usable space for apps.
Since the user can't easily know these two fundamental
pieces of data, and since the carrier clearly knows them,
I feel the carrier should tell us this information when
we ask. They don't (and I have proof via many calls to
T-Mobile over this topic, all of which are documented).
In the end, I filed *both* an FTC and FCC complaint.
I do realize that nothing will come of either one, unless
others file their own complaints (safety in numbers).
On Sunday, April 6, 2014 11:04:19 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
It can be augmented with 32GB of flash, which can be used to
store photos, videos, music, etc. It's just that the additional
memory can't be used to store apps, as I understand it. Do you
have photos, videos, music, etc that are hogging space and can go
to the flash card?
Are you sure there isn't something wrong, like a corrupted file
system, some apps half installed, not removed completely, etc
that is making it look like memory isn't available?
Maybe it's time to restore it to original, wipe it clean and start over?
Seems like a very unusual case we have here. This is the first
phone I've ever heard of that ran out of memory before it was
even put into service.
I have a similar Android, with 4GB flash, Jelly Bean OS. In addtion to
the apps it came with, I've downloaded probably a dozen that I installed.
Right now it reports the apps taking .62GB of memory and 1.13GB available.
What did they tell you when you asked? Did they give you a
number? And if they didn't I would never assume that because
the hardware says it has 4GB of flash, that it's all available.
It's like buying a PC with a 1TB hard drive and expecting that
it's all available, ie that the OS, apps etc don't take up some
If it were me, I'd try to figure out what I'm doing that is so
unique that it renders a phone that 99% of folks can use, useless.
If you're a power user, why did you buy what appears to be an
entry level phone? Isn't this like buying a $300 PC then complaining
because it won't work to run the hot new gaming apps well?
If the phone is truly unusable, you can sell it on Ebay and
buy another one that suits your needs.
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 12:01:31 +0200, Poutnik wrote:
On this LG Optimus L9 (model LG-P769), there is 1.8GB available
as reported by the OS (which means the Android 4.1.2 OS took up
2.2 GB) but only 600MB available after LG & T-Mobile software
was added by the carrier (which means they added 600MB of apps).
The problem is that nobody tells the consumer that the 32GB
sd card can't be used for app storage; so you're stuck with
the 600MB (which nobody tells you either).
Since the carrier *knows* this information, it is my heartfelt
opinion that the carrier should truthfully and faithfully
report the "usable" memory to the consumer, not the initial
Hence my FTC and FCC complaints about deceptive advertising.
On Sunday, April 6, 2014 11:08:54 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
I have a similar 4GB Android. It has all that came with it, plus
at least a dozen apps that I downloaded. It still has 1.13GB avaialable.
I suspect something is wrong with your phone that's eating up space,
like a corrupted file system, some apps that didn't install correctly, etc.
Even assuming it is truely loaded with apps by the carrier, why
can't you delete the apps that you don't need? Did you take a look
at how much memory each app is taking? You have something unusual on
What did they tell you when you asked?
Is that how it works with a PC? Do they tell you how much RAM
or hard drive is free versus how much the OS and apps loaded take
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 06:30:45 -0700, trader_4 wrote:
The problem isn't where the Android OS is stored (since we all
know it's stored in the 4GB "internal memory" of the phone).
The problem is that the key spec is "usable memory", not
total initial memory.
It wouldn't matter if the usable memory were, um, usable,
but, since the usable memory turns out to be 600 MB, that
pretty much makes the phone unusable, even with a high-speed
class-10 32GB microSD card.
The complaint is that the mobile carrier *knows* that the
usable memory is only 600MB, but yet they persist in telling
the user that the phone is 4GB with a 32GB flash card
capability ... when they KNOW that the flash card can't
be used (it remains empty) for apps and that the available
space for apps is locked at 600MB.
All I am asking the FCC and FTC to do is ask the carrier
to tell the truth. I'm not sure why people feel the truth
should not be told, so, let me ask a question of the group:
Why shouldn't the carrier be told to tell the truth?
On Sunday, April 6, 2014 11:13:28 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take
possession and see how much free memory it has? I bet that if
you went back in the first week and said I can't use this phone
because my apps won't fit, they'd do something about it, like
offer to switch you up to a better phone for the difference.
One problem with having that number available is that I'm sure
it constantly changes with software loads, bug fixes, etc. And
it sure isn't how it works with similar devices, eg a PC.
They tell you that the PC has 6GB of RAM, 1TB of hard drive, not
how much is free and available for either storing or running apps.
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 04:06:49 -0500, K Wills wrote:
Nowhere in any T-Mobile document on the web is the truth told.
Also, I have *many* (documented) communications with T-Mobile
where they actually told me the wrong answer to the basic
question of how much USABLE memory there was.
The answer they give is 4GB.
The real answer is 600MB.
I'm not sure why I'm the only one (apparently) who feels
T-Mobile should tell the truth, but, that's the whole point
of solicitation opinions.
I guess I'm the only one who cares that the carriers not
lie to the consumer. Either that, or I'm the only one dumb
enough to (initially) believe the lie.
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