How to Choose, Buy, and Safely Use a Good Surge Protector

[westom]

On Monday, September 30, 2013 12:10:33 PM UTC-4, [e-mail] wrote :

It protects TV1 by earthing the surge 8000 volts destructively via TV2. If you need a power strip protector on TV2, then you need one on every appl iance including every clock, furnace, dishwasher, clock radio, etc. How do you put a protector on each GFCI? Why would anyone spend over $2500 on pl ug-in protectors when one 'whole house' protector does more for only $1 per protected appliance? Because naysayers who never did this stuff recommend the scam.

So you advocate 8000 volts inside a building as acceptable? Why is that type of transient never acceptable in any facility that cannot have damage? It is called hearsay. Many automatically believe hearsay without any dou bts, questions, or a demand for how it works. Protection is always about a surge current earthed outside the building. So that 8000 volts is not hun ting for earth destructively via any appliance. For superior protection th at costs tens or 100 times less money.

Plug-in protectors do virtually no protection from typically destructive surges. They are for another surge that typically does no damage. Plug-in p rotectors are implemented only after a 'whole house' protector is installed (by people who actually do this stuff). Plug-in protectors even need to b e protected by a 'whole house' protector. Since fire is another outgoing p roblem with those undersized and high profit SPDs.

The IEEE Guide says what effective protectors must do:

That is what effective surge protection does. That is never accomplished with any plug-in protector. Attacking the messenger may convince the naiv e. But it does not prove a power strip does any protection from a typicall y destructive surge.

Then the Guide says what effective protectors do and what a power strip p rotector never does:

What do you ignore because you never did this stuff? Earth ground. Those educated by advertising never discuss the most important component in ever y protection system: single point earth ground.

A protector (SPD) is only as effective as its earth ground. Intentionall y ignoring IEEE Guide paragraphs that you do not understand does not prove you have higher intelligence. Attacking the messenger while ignoring what the Guide really says you are easily manipulated by sales myths.

The IEEE Guide says things you ignore to remain deceived. The only solut ion used in every facility that cannot have damage is earthing. With low i mpedance (another phrase you intentionally ignore) connection to that groun d via a wire or 'whole house' protector. Some facilities ban power strip p rotectors due to a fire risk and other problems. And because a properly ea rthed 'whole house' solution does over 99.5% of the protection.

[trader4]

te:

It protects TV1 by clamping the voltages on all the cables going into TV1.

If you need a power strip protector on TV2, then you need one on every app liance including every clock, furnace, dishwasher, clock radio, etc.

Per IEEE, you definitely need multi-port ones on appliances that connect to more that just AC, eg TV, computer, DVR, etc. because a whole house surge protector is not sufficient. Additionally, a plug-in can provide additional protection for any appliances that are particularly sensitive and costly. Again, the concept here is tiered protection. A whole house protector is the first line of defense, but not necessarily sufficient by itself.

As I just pointed out, in a thread last week, Oren asked if he could have a whole house surge protector as well as one that is already installed on his outdoor AC unit. Eventually you replied that, yes, it was OK. I didn't see you saying that the one on the AC unit is worthless, will cause damage, etc because it has no direct connection to earth ground of it's own. That, again, is a similar example of tiered protection.

No one would because if a GFCI is damaged by a surge, it can be replaced for $10. It's impractical to protect and not worth it. The $1500 TV, the $400 DVR, are worth protecting and easily done.

Why would anyone spend over $2500 on plug-in protectors when one 'whole h ouse' protector does more for only $1 per protected appliance? Because nay sayers who never did this stuff recommend the scam.

So the engineering professionals that wrote the IEEE guide are scamming naysayers? From the IEEE guide:

"For complete protection, plug-in protectors should be used in conjunction with the panel protectors described here. The se SPDs are normally located at the protected equipment and are discussed in Section 5 of this Guide."

Apparently you yourself do. You like whole house surge protectors, right? Where do they typically go? Many, probably the vast majority, are at the panel. Again, referring back to Oren's question last week, that is where his was going. Still with me? In the previous post, you claimed that a lightning strike presents a typical surge of 20K amps. And that the minimum rating for a whole house surge protector should be 50K amps. Let's say that short, direct connection to earth ground has a resistance of just 1 ohm. V = IR. You have 20,000 volts right there at the panel, inside the house. And that is just using a resistance of 1 ohm. I actuality, since it's a fast rise time surge, the impedance of that ground connection is going to be significantly higher than 1 ohm.

Note that I don't believe for a second that 20K amps is going to make it to the panel. The main energy of a lightning strike will almost never make it into the house itself. But, I'm just using YOUR claims to show that it doesn't add up. If what you say is true, then you have

20K volts, 50K volts, right there at the panel.

Why is that type of transient never acceptable in any facility that cannot have damage? It is called hearsay. Many automatically believe hearsay wi thout any doubts, questions, or a demand for how it works. Protection is a lways about a surge current earthed outside the building. So that 8000 vol ts is not hunting for earth destructively via any appliance. For superior protection that costs tens or 100 times less money.

Again, the concept is TIERED protection. That is exactly what facilities like Telcos do. They don't just rely on surge protection at the point of entry. They supplement it with additional protection, eg on the linecards, to deal with the part of the surge that can make it past the first line of defense.

IEEE:

"For complete protection, plug-in protectors should be used in conjunction with the panel protectors described here. The se SPDs are normally located at the protected equipment and are discussed in Section 5 of this Guide."

e surges. They are for another surge that typically does no damage. Plug-in protectors are implemented only after a 'whole house' protector is install ed (by people who actually do this stuff). Plug-in protectors even need to be protected by a 'whole house' protector. Since fire is another outgoing problem with those undersized and high profit SPDs.

Back to the fire nonsense.

ed with any plug-in protector. Attacking the messenger may convince the na ive. But it does not prove a power strip does any protection from a typica lly destructive surge.

You left out this part of the IEEE guide that specifically addresses plug-in surge protectors:

IEEE:

"For complete protection, plug-in protectors should be used in conjunction with the panel protectors described here. The se SPDs are normally located at the protected equipment and are discussed in Section 5 of this Guide."

Note that they don't say they start fires, are ineffective, cause damage, etc.

protector never does:

se educated by advertising never discuss the most important component in ev ery protection system: single point earth ground.

Why do you only pay attention to the part of the IEEE guide that talks about whole house surge protectors and completely ignore and lie about what they actually do say about plug-in surge protectors?

Still waiting for an answer:

How are aircraft avionics protected against surges without a direct earth ground?

How were you OK with Oren having a surge protection device on his outdoor AC unit, when it has no direct, short connection to earth ground?

How can surge protection inside all appliance, which you claim is effective, work? The appliance has no direct short connection to earth ground. It's operating under exactly the same limitations that a plug-in surge protector has.

Intentionally ignoring IEEE Guide paragraphs that you do not understand do es not prove you have higher intelligence. Attacking the messenger while i gnoring what the Guide really says you are easily manipulated by sales myth s.

LOL. It's quite obvious to everyone here who's ignoring what the IEEE guide says.

ution used in every facility that cannot have damage is earthing.

That's a lie. Are you denying that a central office for a telephone company, for example, does not also have surge protection inside the facility, in the actual equipment racks, on the linecards? They use a tiered strategy, exactly as the IEEE discusses.

With low impedance (another phrase you intentionally ignore) connection to that ground via a wire or 'whole house' protector. Some facilities ban po wer strip protectors due to a fire risk and other problems. And because a properly earthed 'whole house' solution does over 99.5% of the protection.

Yes, low impedance. Let's pretend it's just 1 ohm. You say a big old honking lightning bolt sends 20K amps through that whole house surge protector into the low impedance ground connection. V = IR. You now have 20K volts at the panel. Again, that is just using your numbers, your assumptions, which neither I nor, nor Bud, nor the IEEE, etc believe is true. But using your numbers, we now have 20K volts at the circuit breaker panel inside the house and you're going to tell us that won't present a damaging surge to the TV inside the house? Good grief!

[bud--]

Voltage at TV2 without a protector at TV1 - 10,000V. Voltage at TV2 with a protector at TV1 - 8,000V. Never explained - how does the protector at TV1 damage TV2.

And

- How would a service panel protector provide any protection in this example? It wouldn't. The village idiot's favorite example is one where his service panel protector does not protect.

And

- Why does the IEEE guide say in this example "the only effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport [plug-in] protector"?

And other real simple questions westom never answers:

- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in protectors?

- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in protectors are "the easiest solution"?

- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the consumer install" a multiport plug-in protector?

- Why did Martzloff say in his paper "One solution. illustrated in this paper, is the insertion of a properly designed [multiport plug-in surge protector]"?

- Why aren't airplanes crashing daily when they get hit by lightning (or do they drag an earthing chain)?

It is westom's religious belief - immune from challenge. If westom could read and think he could find out how plug-in protectors work in the IEEE surge guide starting page 30. It is not primarily by earthing the surge.

Still missing - anyone who agrees with westom that plug-in protectors do not work.

For real science read the IEEE and NIST surge guides. Both say plug-in protectors are effective.