How to biuld a home CO2 carbonation system (the nozzle part)

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Elmo wrote:

Myself - I wouldn't bother. I've read a lot about this kind of thing for corney kegs, but find for myself that just applying pressure and shaking them does the job just fine. Other times, I just turn on the high pressure every time I wander by the keg for a few seconds, until I get the pressure I want. You could do either with your bottles and It will work fine too. The more open space at the top of the bottle, the less times you will need to repeat the CO2 addition for the desired result.
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:37:54 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Very astute observation!
I love the healthy exchange of ideas!
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 22:32:48 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Soda-Water-&-Home-Carbonation---Pays-For-Itsel /
This guy carbonates in GLASS bottles (using a 2 micron carbonation stone)! http://www.winslam.com/laramee/blog/_entry/2008/07/26/Advancing-the-State-of-DIY-Carbonation.html
By the way, the air-chuck idea promoted in some of these articles doesn't work as well as connections that are constantly open to the carbon dioxide.
Also, a quick call to the 800 Coca-Cola number confirms the 2-liter Coke bottles are tested at 200 psi (amazing that they get this question often).
WARNING: California outlawed many brass fittings as of January 1, 2010, so those of you in the tax state may have trouble buying lead-free fittings on line (most non-California brass fittings have up to 2% lead for ease of machining).
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http://www.winslam.com/laramee/blog/_entry/2008/07/26/Advancing-the-State-of-DIY-Carbonation.html This guy's chart shows the Co2 you can put in liquids based on temperature: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation /
He says at 30°F, you only need 10 PSI to carbonate soda to 3 parts Co2 per volume, while at 45°F you have to bring the pressure up to 25 PSI to get the same result, up to 60°F where you need over 30 PSI to get 3 parts of Co2 per volume of liquid.
There's a picture of the guys pump system carbonator here http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm
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LM wrote:

I think I'll just stick to a CO2 tank and regulator.
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:33:38 -0700, LM wrote:

I'm learning more and more how to build (and maintain for safety) a home carbonating system!
Since C02 pressure is around 800 psi, I was wondering why my C02 gauge goes muuuch higher. I found out the Co2 pressure is logarithmically temperature related ... so at reasonably warm summer temperatures (over 90°F), the C02 tank pressure could climb over 1200psi!
So, the first thing is to keep the tank covered from sunlight!
Also keep the C02 tank vertical! This article explains why. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm
BTW, some people use C02 tanks to fill large off-road tires because a typical air tank (they say) doesn't hold enough air. Interesting: http://www.stu-offroad.com/recovery/co2/co2-1.htm
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On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 21:22:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The article suggested 150psi (and says 100psi is generated internally if you drop any common soda bottle); so, as an experiment, I donned welders garb (helmet, bib, and heavy gloves) and pressurized the 1 liter seltzer bottle filled with orange juice to 150psi ... and ... nothing happened.
Well, the orange juice was really fizzy when I removed the pressure and removed the cap; but what I mean is the bottle held 150 psi with aplomb!
I was too scared to go higher than 150 psi though (I had ammo of 800 psi of c02 available).
I remember reading somewhere they test automotive tires by filling them to 200 psi of water to see if they'll blow (the water apparently lessens the danger).
Anyway, it's amazing how well engineered a 10 cent throw-away soda bottle is!
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On Apr 4, 9:41 am, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

(snip)
(snip)
Yes, there's no danger because, being incompressible, it does not store energy like a pressurized gas. The only stored energy with water pressurization is strain energy in the vessel, usually quite small. If the vessel ruptures the pressure instantly goes to zero and the water just runs out. Cheers, Roger
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:34:32 -0700 (PDT), Engineer wrote:

Does that mean that, if I fill the juice bottle with juice, and then pressurize the head space to, say 200 psi (or whatever it takes to burst the bottle or cap), that the danger is less (than if I filled it purely with gas)?
The hose is beverage hose so it seems to take 150psi without problems. The bottle seems to take 150psi without problems and the tire valve doesn't seem to leak from the top so I wonder what happens if I fill it to bursting.
What can we predict will happen if I have, say, an inch or two of headspace and I pressurize the bottle to bursting (either glass or plastic)?
I suspect the glass would be too dangerous to even try (although glass would hold up to higher pressure ... maybe even the 800 psi of the carbon dioxide tank???).
I suspect the bottle top will blow off the threads before the bottle explodes or before the hose expands. The top has a brass tire valve in it so obviously you'd want it to be aimed the other way from your face.
Unanswered questions: Do you think the bottle will blow first or the cap off the threads? Do you think glass will withstand the entire 800 psi of the C02 tank?
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:41:07 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

Correction!
The article suggested 50psi! (not 150psi). http://www.truetex.com/carbonation.htm
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:47 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

Given a co2 tank at 72°F has a pressure of 860 psi (as long as there is some liquid still in the tank) according to this nice C02 tank care article: http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/co2_tanks.html
I'm curious ... Q1: How do you know when you're "almost out" of liquid in a C02 tank???
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Elmo wrote:

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Sjouke Burry wrote:

Weigh it, perhaps?
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Elmo wrote:

Just keep adding CO2 every several hours until you reach the desired carbonation level. After you pressurize the airspace, the CO2 will be gradually absorbed into the water, and the pressure in the airspace will drop until it reaches equilibrium. Or, you can attach the CO2, and shake the bottle to speed the absorbtion. Beginning with the water very cold will speed the process. As you shake the bottle, the CO2 quickly disolves into the water, and you will likely hear the CO2 flow out of the regulator as you do. Do this for a bit, then turn off the CO2 (leaving it attached) and continue shaking until the pressure at the guage quits going down. The guage will then show approximately the equilibrium pressure at the current temperature of the water in the bottle. You can repeat this until you reach the desired carbonation.
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:54:45 -0700, Bob F wrote:

I was able to carbonate (explained in a thread where I corrected the spelling of "build" in the title).
Basically, there are two fundamental methods: 1. Tire valve with the stem intact ... or ... 2. Tire valve with the stem removed.
It takes only about a minute to fully carbonate a liter of liquid with the stem removed. The "flow" I had trouble understanding was a static "infusion" of carbon dioxide molecules into the fluid based on the partial pressure of C02 in the air space above the liquid and the partial pressure of C02 in the liquid; not a literal air-stream flow that was discernible.
Method 1, as you noted, will work; it just takes a LOT longer with static C02 pressure because it takes about 4 volumes of C02 (i.e., 4 liters) to fully carbonate 1 volume of liquid (i.e., 1 liter).
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Elmo wrote:

Use cold water. Squeeze the bottle to force the air out before putting on the cap. Shake the bottle while the tire chuck is attached and the CO2 will flow as the pressure drops (will drop because the CO2 is being dissolved.) Then let it rest a minute before you open it. I think I usually set the gauge at about 60 pounds.
You can even overcarbonate it this way.
It works really well with filtered apple juice, or with cheap wine to make it bubbly.
Bob
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:52:53 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

Some people even carbonate fruit! http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Carbonated-Fruit /
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http://www.truetex.com/carbonation.htm
-- Cheers, WB .............

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On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 00:39:48 -0400, Wild_Bill wrote:

Indeed! That Richard J. Kinch treatise, titled " Carbonating at Home with Improvised Equipment" was what gave me the idea to build my own carbonator. He delved into the SCIENCE of it all; which gave me courage!
But even that wonderful tutorial missed out on a few points. For example, "infusion" and not "flow" are what he should have used to describe how you get 4 liters of CO2 into a 1 liter bottle of Orange Juice in a closed system.
Also, he didn't describe some technical points, some of which are listed in this CO2 Dynamics web site (http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2dynamics.shtml ) such as a "full" tank contains only about 34% liquid CO2.
But most surprising (to me), was the statement that the pressure of a co2 tank has nothing to do with the amount of co2 in the tank; the pressure (as long as there is "some" liquid in it) is always dependent solely upon the temperature.
"At room temperature (70°F) it's about 853 psi."
So, with my new carbon dioxide tank, I'm not sure how I tell how much co2 is left in the tank. Does anyone know how you tell when it's getting low?
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With a little personal experience, you can tell by the weight of the tank.
And once the liquid is completely gone and the pressure starts dropping, you probably have a few days of usefulness remaining. A few liters of CO2 at 800 PSI is enough to carbonate 10's of liters of soda before the pressure in the tank drops to the 100-120 PSI or so used for carbonation.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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