How Not-To-NEC is this?

A neighbor added an outlet on the first floor stair landing for a fish tank. The wall in question is the wall between the house and the attached garage.
Since this wall sits on top of the block foundation wall and there is a bunch of ductwork in the basement just below it, he wasn't able to (easily) fish the wire up through the wall, so here's what he did:
In the upper front corner of the basement was an existing hole through which ran the wires to the outlets in the garage, the doorbell wires, etc. He ran a length of Romex thorugh this hole into the garage, then into a 6' strip of wiremold attached to the garage wall and came back into the house through a hole drilled in the garage wall opposite from where outlet was installed.
All the other Romex in the garage is exposed; he just felt that he should protect this length of Romex because it runs horizontally across the only finished wall in the garage, about 4 feet off the slab, and looked very vulnerable.
Maybe it's legal, but in terms "workmanship-like manner" it looks pretty iffy.
Your thoughts?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Through what? Romex may be fished through air voids inside a block wall, but if it goes *through* a block wall, it must be protected by conduit. It's not clear from your description whether this cable is coming through the block foundation wall (in which case it's a violation) or through a stud wall (in which case it's probably not).

Romex is permitted to be installed either concealed or exposed.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Oct 25, 3:03 pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Thanks. The Romex enters the garage through a stud so that's OK.
BTW, I don't really have a "problem" with the installation. It is just that the look of the wiring seems out of place - you can see where the Romex makes a right angle out of the end of the wire mold and disappears into the wall about 4' feet off the ground. For some reason, it's just not an aesthetically pleasing installation to me, so that's what made me wonder about the "workmanship like manner" issue. However, based on what you guys have said, it's fine.
Thanks again.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:03:10 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Can you cite that? I may just be drawing a blank today. I was a boat mechanic all week
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No, I can't, actually. I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment -- maybe I just hallucinated that. <g>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So he:
Fished romex through an existing wiring space - legit Protected the romex where exposed to damage in the garage with an approved raceway (wiremold) - legit Ran the romex into the wall cavity where needed to service an outlet - legit
I'd have probably used EMT in the garage, and a squirt of fire stop goop at each garage wall penetration would be good, but I don't see anything really wrong with what he did.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, assuming that the existing wiring space was legit....
It's not clear from the OP's description whether the existing hole pierces the block wall foundation, or a stud wall above it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Oct 25, 7:42?pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

doorbell low voltage wires arent supposed to be run with romex cables. not a electrician but I believe thats not permitted, as a cross connection could produce line voltage at a doorbell button.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com ( snipped-for-privacy@aol.com) said...

They are not allowed to enter into the same space within a box or panel, but you can certainly run them next to them through and along studs and joists.
The one thing that no one else has mentioned here is what was done with the hole that the cable goes through? Attached garages are supposed to be gas-tight from the living space, and drilling a hole in the wall violates that. Once the cable is in place, the hole should be caulked with acoustic sealant (an icky black substance that never hardens).
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 26 Oct, 07:36, snipped-for-privacy@remove.daxack.ca.invalid (Calvin Henry- Cotnam) wrote:

OP here...
Neither the hole where the wires enter the garage nor return into the wall are caulked. Of course, I doubt the wood door into the house is gas tight either. His house was built by the same builder as mine back in the 50's when I doubt (but don't know) if the "gas-tight" codes were in effect. We have the same door into the house and I'm sure it's not gas tight.
Neither of us currently park in the garage (too much other stuff) but obviously situations could change.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Calvin Henry-Cotnam wrote: ...

Where did this come from? I've never yet seen an attached garage that had an airlock between it and the entry door, an entry door that was anything near "gas-tight", etc., etc., etc., ...
What about basement garages which have interior stairs up?
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The IRC does not even require a fire rated wall between a garage and the living space, only the ceiling if living space is above the garage.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Calvin Henry-Cotnam wrote:

I seem to recall specifically noting that fire stop (not acoustic) compound should be used... "and a squirt of fire stop goop at each garage wall penetration would be good,"... yep, that's what I said.
As for gas tight, that is certainly not the case, the common walls, doors, etc. between a garage and house should be fire rated, not gas tight, and the fire rated standards are lower than those for commercial spaces.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

All you need is a "15 minute finish". That can be cheap panelling or 1/2" drywall plugged with drywall mud. (hollow core doors etc) True "fire rated assemblies" start at 1 hour. You need 1 hour above a garage if there is habitable space above the garage. That is typically 5/8" "fire code" drywall.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 26 Oct, 14:45, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Assuming the existing wall is a 15 minute finish, would drilling a single hole for a piece of Romex compromise the integrity to such an extend that it is no longer "safe"?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Since this is not really a fire rated assembly penetrations are not really that big a deal. You can use a plastic box in this wall. Draft stopping will be a bigger issue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It sounds like it is protected from damage. And if it is protected from damage, what is your problem with it?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Didn't think I'd _ever_ agree w/ Toller, but ... :)
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Around here all Romex is bad unless it's an UF application. I'm continually cringed by Romex posts in general because it's so foreign here and seems dangerous any way you use it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Most of the rest of the world doesn't see it that way. Where is "around here"? Chicago?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.