How much to remove heating oil?

It had to be a re-run because I was going to post this message (from my Drafts file) when it first was televised on 7/8/11:

A homeowner, who has been a customer of Statewide Oil since 2008, is told in May 2010 that her 25 to 30 year old oil boiler is on its last legs and may last only 1 or 2 more years, if that. She claims, and the oil company does not deny, that she was never on any "auto fill" option plan.

The oil tank in nearly empty. In October 2010 she calls for someone to clean and inspect the unit after getting a quote to switch to natural gas from a plumbing dealer. It is not clear if the oil company knows this. But before they send the cleaner/inspector they fill her tank with oil. She calls to complain that she never asked for the oil, that she wanted only someone to determine that status of the boiler. She tells the court that if they say it won't last the season (which they said was possible) she was going to convert to gas and take out the boiler.

After the fill up they send the cleaning/inspection guy who points out there are two nasty, nearly rusted-through spots on her boiler and that it's probably not safe to use anymore. He says it probably won't last the winter if she does. The situation ends up with them placing a lien against her house for both the cost of the oil and the cost of removing the oil.

In court, the oil company finance officer appears with the serviceman but not with the receptionist who took the call or any other proof of a request for a fill. . The judge asks why the person who took the call wasn't there and the finance manager said "We asked he but she doesn't remember that call." The judge asks the finance manager "Can you swear to me that she called and asked your company to "fill her up" and the manager replies "I can't swear to that."

The oil cost around $550 and the removal cost around $538. The oil company has filed suit for both the cost of the oil and its removal, which is done by another company for a total of $1142. The judge establishes that the company did the checkup AFTER the tank was filled, which the company responds to by saying "she called for the fill up" and that they often send the inspection/cleaning person after the oil is delivered.

How do you think the judge ruled?

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No, I disagree. If they told you they wouldn't automatically deliver unless you did X and they delivered without you doing X, they are on the hook for pumping it all out. That's basic contract law. If that were not the case, shady oil companies and just about everyone else would be delivering stuff to you demanding payment whether you ordered it or not. It sounds like oil companies are close to that point, anyway.

But once the oil company removes and resells it, they are liable for anything in that oil. Who knows, maybe her crackhead son was cooking meth or brewing beer in it! (-:

I believe that was immaterial to the case. She didn't ask for oil but did ask for an inspection. She got the oil BEFORE they came and told her the boiler was shot. Their mistake, they eat the cost. While it was a few months ago, I seem to recall her saying that the new guys were going to remove the old boiler and tanks, but that may not even have come up.

The issue here is getting jacked for the price of both delivering and removing oil that was never ordered in the first place and then having a lien thrown against the house. The oil company could neither produce a receipt or a person to confirm she asked for oil, and I kinda believe she wouldn't have with the boiler looking the way it did. There's a picture beginning to emerge of a "pump first, ask questions later" attitude in the heating oil supply business.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green
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It was both filled AND removed without authorization and then a lien put against the house for $1142 for pumping in, pumping out AND the cost of the oil. The judge made the oil company eat the entire fee.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

And PERHAPS knowing she was talking to the gas company they figured they'd get the job of replacing the boiler with another oil-fired one if it was going to cost an extra $1100 to switch to gas- - - - - .

Reply to
clare

As they should have. Automatic fill usually required a contract and often monthly budget payments. I did that for a number of years with my old oil company until they screwed me.

I had a contract for 850 gallons at a fixed price that was in effect until May 15. During the winter, they delivered about 750 gallons, leaving another hundred come May. The bastards filled my tank on May

16 and charged full price, not the contracted price for the 100 gallons left on the contract that expired the day before.

It was legal, but I think unethical. After two phone calls and a letter, they settled for the contracted price on the 100 gallons. It was the last oil they ever sold me.

I've since installed a new, more efficient boiler and use about 450 gallons a year now.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

I don't believe they knew she was thinking of switching but it does sound like they were trying to "get their foot in the door" for any heating remodelling. A heating oil company's version of an "anchor baby."

No matter what their motives, they clearly did things in the wrong order. Inspect BEFORE you pump in a full tank, not afterwards. I wonder if the "other company" they had to call to pull the oil out wasn't a wholly-owned subsidiary. I would have been fuming if I had been charged not only for the oil, but its removal because I am sure I could have found someone to pump it out for free and perhaps for a little added cash.

I can't believe they just "dumped" the oil they retrieved from her, either. I am sure they tried not only billing her $1142 for the fill and removal, but sold what they pulled from her tank to some other customer without telling them it was used oil. Who would know? What a deal. Making over $1500 on one tank.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Gawd. Are they really heating oil companies or professional "butt fu&ers?" Maybe it's that constant sticking of hoses in holes that turns them to the Dark Side. They're always out to stick it to someone.

Vendors don't seem to understand that by squeezing a customer they risk losing them for life - and losing referrals, too. There are a number of companies I'll never deal with again like Citibank. Fool me once, shame on you, as the saying goes. My boss used to tell the story of how his dad, the patriarch of a large clan of Irishmen, got screwed by a Ford dealer once for undercoating he did not request and did not want. No one person in that whole, huge extended family ever bought a Ford as a result for something like 40 years afterwards.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I can see how she won, because the oil company could not show that she had called for oil. However, I think it's likely she did call. Let's look at the facts:

She is told in May that her old boiler may only last another year or two.

She gets a quote from another company to install a new gas boiler.

She calls in Oct for routine service on the old oil boiler.

Given that sequence, it seems likely to me that she had seen the price of a new gas system and decided against it. Otherwise she would not have called for service on the old one. And having decided to continue with the existing one, it's not unreasonable to think that she could have asked for the oil to be filled at the same time. Or that they asked during that call if she needed it filled and she said yes, not thinking that it could be filled and then the boiler is found to be shot so soon after being last inspected in May.

But since the oil company can't produce a witness who remembers what happened, they lose.

Reply to
trader4

No, they bought GMs from the GM dealer owned by the same family in the next town??

Reply to
clare

I heartilly dissagree. They've been servicing that furnace and told her last year it was on it's last legs. She called for an inspection. She did NOT have an auto-fill contract and did not ask for a fill. If it was two different companies, the oil company would not have known the service company was checking out a "bad" furnace - but it was one company. Most likely one receptionist, and one dispatcher.

Reply to
clare

"The law abhors a forfeiture", is a general rule, although I don't know if it applies here.

Bobby G is right too.

Reply to
micky

Agreed.

Me neither.

While it's always conceivalbe that a customer puts crap in the oil, the odds of it are really low, and at the least they could sell the oil at a bargain pirce to the owner or someone in his family who has an oil furnace. Or to an employee. After all, in the slim chance it hurts that furnace, they can have their own company fix the furnace, and it would be a true business expense.

That's possible too. They coul deliver it to someone they knew would call them if he had furnace problems, maybe someone with an old furnace, so he wouldn't blame the oil but his furnace.

. What a deal. Making over

Reply to
micky

The ohter possibility is that your psychic!

At the very least you're well orgnaized, to find this now. ;)

Reply to
micky

Agreed that she did not have an auto-fill contract. But in the case it was disputed whether or not she asked for it to be filled. The company says she did, she claims she did not.

She was told her furnace probably had one or two years life left earlier that year. She got a quote from another company to convert to gas as a result. So then in Oct, start of the heating season, she calls for routine service. Sure sounds possible to me that having decided she wasn't going to install the new gas system, she decided to go with the old one for another season. So, she called for routine cleaning/service and certainly might have also asked for the tank to be filled.

You expect the receptionist and dispatcher to know that it was a "bad" furnace? She was NOT calling for service on a furnace that was not working. She called for routine service.

Reply to
trader4

We have a company come to take our waste oil. It has to be handles by a licensed company by state law and you need DEP permits, etc. They charge us 10¢ a gallon for our old hydraulic oil. They pump it into the single tank on the truck. It mixes with used motor oil, contaminated oil, and anything else they suck up during the day.

I'm not sure what they do with it, but I know of one outfit that filters it and burns it for heating a kiln in cement making plant.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

In this case, it depended on the sequence of events. Had they not removed the oil, I think the judge might have ruled she could keep it, but as you say, some jurists might feel that's a harsh penalty. But perhaps not if she had nowhere to sell it or no way to remove it. Then she could claim they stuck her with something she could not use and that would cost a great deal of money to remove and dispose of legally. I can't believe that oil was just dumped. Much more likely it got sold to someone else.

What's the downside? How could the new recipient prove it was "bad oil?" There are a lot of suppositions outside of the actual facts. In this case, it seemed pretty clear the boiler was on its last legs and that inspection should have come before filling, especially since she didn't ASK for filling.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Obviously you've never seen what comes out of a 40 year old tank when you pump it all out.

Clairvoyant? She CLAIMS she didn't call for filling. The oil company CLAIMS she did. Don't you think it's a bit curious that she never claimed they delivered oil without her calling for it before? That this one time the oil gets delivered somehow without her asking for it?

Sequence of events:

Boiler is serviced in Spring and she is told it probably has 1 or 2 years of life left.

She calls another company and gets a quote on a new gas system.

Oct she calls for routine service at the start of the heating season. Company claims she also asked for the tank to be filled, she says she did not.

Given that scenario it looks like she saw the price of a new system, decided against it. So, getting ready for the new season she called for routine service, ie cleaning, new nozzle, etc. and to have the tank filled, without thinking that it might have suddenly gone kaput.

Reply to
trader4

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