How much should I have paid for a new furnace/AC?

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1099? Please don't drink and post.
================ John A. Weeks III wrote in message ...
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

These jobs require some specialized tools and equipment. Who owns those tools? If he uses his work tools on the side, then that is equivalent to theft. His company fronts all the money, but the worker is putting wear and tear doing under the table jobs. And how about the truck that transported those tools? Who owned the truck? And whose contractor license was being used? Most likely, you would have ended up with an illegal furnace that couldn't pass inspection. And who paid for stuff like worker's comp insurance? You did send in a check, didn't you? If not, then you took a huge risk of the furnace guy getting cut on sheet metal and being disabled. Plus you broke the law. Were you planning to send a 1099 for the work, or were you going to commit tax fraud along the way, too? And was the worker in the union? What kind of union guy does scab work on the side. Finally, what happens if the job went bad after the fact? Who is there to stand bye and warranty the work? Or fix the defects? Or do your emergency service call at midnight when it is 40 below? Or to accept the blame when your house burns own, and your own insurance refuses to pay because you had unlicensed work done with no building permit or inspection?
Every part of this deal stinks, and has huge cost risks for very little monetary gain. Don't fall into that trap.
-john-
-- =====================================================================John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 snipped-for-privacy@johnweeks.com Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com =====================================================================
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But it was morally right.....
If thats the case, you didnt pay more than $400 right? At least....I hope not...
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Welllllllll, it actually was illegal. Was there a permit pulled. Did you pay tax on the work, was the technician definitely refrigerant certified, did you cover his workmans comp and liability insurance while you were subcontracting his services, did he use his own torch, recovery machine, evacuation pump, solder, braze rod, nitrogen, nitrogen regulator, refrigerant, or did he steal any of these from his employer? Did he reimburse the employer for the use of this equipment. I am gonna stop now, but I think you get the idea. It is easy to come up with about a dozen more ways it was immoral, or illegal. If he was some hack with his own tools and machinery giving you a low ball bid it would be different. but if he is employed by someone else it is most likely against company policy, immoral, or illegal.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net
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Welllllllll, it actually was illegal. Was there a permit pulled.
Since when is a permit required to change an A/C compressor. That's the example I gave that got this guy Steve all in a huff. It might be in some whacko area, but for most area, it's not required.
Did you pay tax on the work,
Yes, I paid tax
was the technician definitely refrigerant certified,
Yes he was, as that is his main career at a large industrial opeartion that has enough A/C to require a guy on site.. Now tell me, how many of residential customers that call in any A/C guy ask to see his certification? So why jump on this issue?
did you cover his workmans comp and liability insurance while you were subcontracting his services,
get this straight, I didn't "subcontract" anything. I'm not in a business, just a private homeowner
did he use his own torch, recovery machine, evacuation pump, solder, braze rod, nitrogen, nitrogen regulator, refrigerant, or did he steal any of these from his employer? Did he reimburse the employer for the use of this equipment.
As far as I know, he used his own eqpt. Does any homeowner check where your eqpt came from? I can just see this "Uh, Mr. repairman, please show me all your receipts to show where your tools came from. Geez, get real.
I am gonna stop now, but I think you get the idea. It is easy to come up with about a dozen more ways it was immoral, or illegal. If he was some hack with his own tools and machinery giving you a low ball bid it would be different. but if he is employed by someone else it is most likely against company policy, immoral, or illegal.
You should stop now. Because you don't know what you're talking about. I could just as easily accuse any contractor of all kinds of things, like screwing customers, doing unneccary work. But on the basis of all the crap you've come up with, everyone is a crook because one thing or another "might" not be proper, without any knowledge or proof that it is. There are lots of guys that moonlight, run their own business on the side and work for an employer. And as I have pointed out repeatidly, he's not doing work that is in confict with his employer because the employer is an A/C end user, not a contractor that services/installs. Got it now? Or should we have a remedial class for you guys on why 1099's aren't involved here either?
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http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
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Im not in a huff....damn...
In some areas, yes..a permit is required to put a compressor in...
If you people understood the true purpose behind inspections you would not be bitching about it.

Because we are rwquired by law to carry our card, and you would be amazed at the smarter homeowners that DO ask. We have gone to a ID tag now that has the picture ID on the front, and the EPA card on the back.

Then you did indeed subcontract the repair...

We are getting real.
See...if one of my guys ASKED if he could use my supplied equipment to help out a friend of his, the answer would be yes, but if I catch him using my equipment to install a compressor for someone, he not only gets fired, but he is charged for the time he used our equipment.

If hes moonlighting, and from what you say, he is....then perhaps his boss might have a problem with it. You claim we are assuming alot....but you are as well.
I havent seen your answer on what you paid yet...you got a compressor put in...was it more than $400 by your hack?
BTW....in areas that require a licence, that licence that we are talking about isnt an EPA card, its a state issued card, and in many areas, it is required for repairs as well. What will you do if in 3 months that compressor fails again, and you cant show a licenced company put it in? How will you get warranty service then? Lie about it?
If you would stop assuming so much, and READ these posts, you would see that there is a lesson here, even if its not what you want to hear.
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"If you would stop assuming so much, and READ these posts, you would see that there is a lesson here, even if its not what you want to hear. "
YOU are the one that's assuming everything, not me. You assume everyone steals tools and it's up to a homeowner to know where they came from. You assume a permit is required to replace a compressor. Oh, but now you say it "may" be required. Please do tell. Do you get a permit to replace a compressor? Almost everywhere, it's not required, yet you assume it was in my case and that by not getting one I broke the law.
You assume an employer has a problem with an employee having a business on the side that doesn't conflict with the employer's business. You assume there are tax reporting issues for a homeowner when they hire a repariman and they have to file 1099's, when in fact as others have pointed out, it's totally false.
I can just imagine the BS you feed customers to take advantage of them. You sound like the shyster that comes in and sites all kinds of non-existent BS, then tells the lady, sorry dear I'm gonna have to call in some non-existent agency to red tag your furnace to scare her into getting unneccesary work done.
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Trader4,
Well said!
Gideon
==============
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in message
"If you would stop assuming so much, and READ these posts, you would see that there is a lesson here, even if its not what you want to hear. "
YOU are the one that's assuming everything, not me. You assume everyone steals tools and it's up to a homeowner to know where they came from. You assume a permit is required to replace a compressor. Oh, but now you say it "may" be required. Please do tell. Do you get a permit to replace a compressor? Almost everywhere, it's not required, yet you assume it was in my case and that by not getting one I broke the law.
You assume an employer has a problem with an employee having a business on the side that doesn't conflict with the employer's business. You assume there are tax reporting issues for a homeowner when they hire a repariman and they have to file 1099's, when in fact as others have pointed out, it's totally false.
I can just imagine the BS you feed customers to take advantage of them. You sound like the shyster that comes in and sites all kinds of non-existent BS, then tells the lady, sorry dear I'm gonna have to call in some non-existent agency to red tag your furnace to scare her into getting unneccesary work done.
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Les, I'm sure you got a great deal and made out very well. I'm even more sure that you side-jobber made out even better. I have no doubts about that. I just don't like it when our kids get ripped off so that someone else can get a great deal. Especially if it's tax/education dollars that got ripped-off through illegal use of school district materials *AND/OR" equipment & tools.
Jabs

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"Les, I'm sure you got a great deal and made out very well. I'm even more sure that you side-jobber made out even better. I have no doubts about that. I just don't like it when our kids get ripped off so that someone else can get a great deal. Especially if it's tax/education dollars that got ripped-off through illegal use of school district materials *AND/OR" equipment & tools. Jabs "
You know, you are an amazing fellow. You know that the guy who does A/C work for the school but also does other A/C work on the side is stealing materials from the school. You know he's using school equipment too. You must be clairvoyant. And at the same time you know that any other repairman someone might find, say through the yellow pages must be 100% honest, right, cause he has a nice ad and maybe a phone service. Ever see the TV news shows where they take things like a TV with a blown fuse to shops that appears to be 100% legit, only to be told by a third of them that it needs $250 worth of bogus work?
Tell me this. Did you ever buy anything on Ebay? Did you check out where it came from, whether the guy had a business license, if his house was zoned for business, if he had an arrest record, check his tax returns to see if he's paying tax and determine if he was using his employer's computer at work to check on his auctions? Or did you just buy the item on Ebay like everyone else.
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Jabs wrote:

    And I don't know how the rest of the country is, but the fat, lazy, stupid techs here can always get a job at a school district.
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Vicki Szaszvari posted for all of us...

Hey, I resemble those remarks...
--

Tekkie

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wrote:

No shit. Around here, that is the job of the school's sports department and the superintendent.
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wrote:

In this nation, it is the job of the service industry - those with yellow page ads.
We've seen them on prime time news shows stealing from customers by charging for services and parts that were not defective. I do blieve that one of the guys was honest though but the vast majority were crooks. I'd recommend the guy doing it on the side. He probably hasn't learned how to steal like the pros yet.
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Getting some one to do it "on the side" is poor practice as he is probably not licensed or insured. Also he may be using school district tools and materials, you could both be in trouble with the law if he gets caught. If he wants to be a contractor he should do it full time and not get subsidized by the school district.
The price seems fair, not having seen the job. The VS motor and two stage makes, higher efficiency furnace would be better (90%). Since you are in upstate NY, heating efficiency will be more important than cooling efficiency, but I would have gone for 11 or 12 SEER anyway.
Stretch
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I'm also in Rochester, and got pretty much exactly the same equipment installed three years ago, in a 50 year old house. Did the company happen to have the initials I H A A C?
Anyway, we paid something around $3800 to remove the old furnance, do a bit of duct work, and install new furnance and the outside A/C unit. ( There was no A/C in the house, before. ) We have a 1300 sq ft house. There was one guy working most of the day, with a second one who came in to help carry out the old, absolutely huge Perfection furnace that was there before. Boy, am I glad I didn't have to help with THAT. ;-)
- Rich
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Yup - that'd be them. Up until now, we had their archrival J B do our annual inspection... but their quotes for Carrier equipment was kinda high. The clincher for me was the design of the heat exchanger on the Rheem equipment (tubular steel compared to two pieces of sheet metal crimped together on the Carrier), and the outdoor AC unit that was less prone to damage from weed-whackers, soccer balls, etc.

There
Hmmm... either prices have shot up considerably in the past few years, or you had stuff with lower BTU's/tons put in given the smaller square footage. What did you end up having installed? Any problems with it or I H A A C ??
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I'll have to dig up the paperwork to find the BTU's of the furnance, but IIRC, we got a 2 ton A/C.
No problems at all with the company. We've been very pleased with them. The compressor on the A/C died after about a year, and they were out within about an hour and replaced it. All labor and parts covered, of course.
The price we got may have been because of competition. There was a bit of a price war going on between I and B at the time, for furnace/AC packages.
- Rich
- Rich
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(Snipped from) Federal Document Clearing House Congressional Testimony Capitol Hill Hearing Testimony
Thomas E. Bettcher, President and CEO of Copeland (snip) ".......The number one problem of our contractors today is the inability to hire new technicians. Another glaring problem facing our industry is product "takeback," the return of products to the manufacturer. The number one cause of product takeback is the incompetence of technicians during installation leading to the return and replacement of units, even when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the product. This unnecessary replacement of good machinery drives up warranty costs and hurts our reputation, all because the installer does not have enough training to install the system properly in the first place......"
Rich, After reading the above snippet from the President and CEO of Copeland Corp's testimony to the U.S. Congress, maybe you will understand "price wars" in HVAC installations a little better.
Jabs

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