how much should I be charging for these shared appliances..

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On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:36:00 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:

I disagree. If he's lugging the salt home, paying for it, maintaining the softener, the neighbor has no responsibility for paying for repairs to the system, the pump, the well, the heater, etc, then $50 is a reasonable price for softened water for a household of 3. It's not out of line for many municipal water bills.
To gather the hard data isn't a trivial or inexpensive exercise. And then, assuming the neighbor is not responsible for splitting the above system costs, you're still left with what is a reasonable charge for unexpected maintenance, depreciation, etc. I'd have no problem paying $50 a month for softened water for a family of three plus watering of a large yard. The neighbor doesn't like it, maybe she should come up with the detailed investigation and analysis of all of the above.
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I disagree. If he's lugging the salt home, paying for it, maintaining the softener, the neighbor has no responsibility for paying for repairs to the system, the pump, the well, the heater, etc, then $50 is a reasonable price for softened water for a household of 3. It's not out of line for many municipal water bills.
To gather the hard data isn't a trivial or inexpensive exercise. And then, assuming the neighbor is not responsible for splitting the above system costs, you're still left with what is a reasonable charge for unexpected maintenance, depreciation, etc. I'd have no problem paying $50 a month for softened water for a family of three plus watering of a large yard. The neighbor doesn't like it, maybe she should come up with the detailed investigation and analysis of all of the above.
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LOL
You have even more "ifs" than assumptions, and ZERO facts.
It is not hard to come up with some of these facts.
And, you suggest that the person owing OP money should be the one to do the work and come up with the right number? Ya think she might low ball it? Just maybe? You think she won't bother to include capital reserves, etc? Just maybe?
This is a trivial matter.
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On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:03:26 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:

It's not a trivial matter, unless you think rewiring several circuits with a power meter or putting them all on a separate utility service and installing two water flow meters is "trivial". Even if the OP can legally do that himself and has the necessary skills, it's not trivial. As to the neighbor coming up with a low number, sure she can do that, she in fact already has, so too can the OP come up with some bogus high number. I do have some facts. I've owned homes, paid for wells, pumps and municipal water service. And $50 isn't an unreasonable fee for water service for a household with 3 people that includes not only softened water, but also half the expense for watering a large lawn. The neighbor thought it was OK before closing, then changed her mind 6 months later. If she wanted to argue over how much the costs really are, she should have brought it up then instead of agreeing, then reneging. At which point, the OP could have said that if she wants to figure it out to that level of accuracy, then *she* will have to pay for the work involved because in his opinion, what he's already providing, the work he's doing eg being responsible for the system, running the softener, dragging the bags home, paying for them, etc is worth $50 a month just by itself.
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It's not a trivial matter, unless you think rewiring several circuits with a power meter or putting them all on a separate utility service and installing two water flow meters is "trivial". ----------------
you can use an hour meter or two.
-------------------- Even if the OP can legally do that himself and has the necessary skills, it's not trivial. As to the neighbor coming up with a low number, sure she can do that, she in fact already has, so too can the OP come up with some bogus high number. I do have some facts. I've owned homes, paid for wells, pumps and municipal water service. And $50 isn't an unreasonable fee for water service for a household with 3 people that includes not only softened water, but also half the expense for watering a large lawn. The neighbor thought it was OK before closing, then changed her mind 6 months later. If she wanted to argue over how much the costs really are, she should have brought it up then instead of agreeing, then reneging. At which point, the OP could have said that if she wants to figure it out to that level of accuracy, then *she* will have to pay for the work involved because in his opinion, what he's already providing, the work he's doing eg being responsible for the system, running the softener, dragging the bags home, paying for them, etc is worth $50 a month just by itself.
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And then the neighbor doesn't do it and pays nothing. Gets you nowhere. And the neighbor has done some sort of calculation, looked up charts. But OP is having none of it - a number pulled out of his butt is good enough!
What happens when repairs re needed? The neighbor would say that was all included in the $50. And there are no calculations or other data to refute it. $50 per month may be too low to cover all aspects of this situation. But that is just another thought pulled out of the butt.
The real problem here is the OP is not telling us stuff. I bet there is a recorded document regarding the well and shared lawn, etc. There must be. And what else is she reneging on? He said she was "reneging on everything".
Too hard to work with a guy like that. Tell all, or get no help.
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On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 8:17:32 AM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:

An hour meter doesn't account for the differing water usage between houses, how much is going for lawn watering versus to either party directly, etc. Nor does it show the electric power used. As Ed pointed out, you can buy actual power meters.

Weren't you the one that said it was trivial?

Weren't you the one that said it was trivial?

I had brought that up and the reply was that it was spelled out, but like you say, nothing beyond that.

Yeah, I agree, we're only getting one side and a lot of info is lacking. I also think that him saying that the front lawn is being watered 2 or 3 times a day probably has a lot to do with it. I can picture the neighbor watching that, thinking it's nuts, which it almost surely is, and figuring she's paying for it.
The "reneging on everything" I would take to mean that she simply stopped paying altogether. A decent person would be at least paying something towards it. And if it gets to court, that's always an indication of who the real skunk is.
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you can make some calculations. you can make some assumptions, based on fact. you can do some math.

it is trivial

it is trivial

I don't think that is what "reneging on everything" means. There is a lot to sharing property like this, and she is telling him some of his rules make no sense and are not fair. He is probably treating her as the ugly stepchild, when in fact they are to be treated equally.
He has said he has gone to a lawyer, so he can pay and then do what needs to be done - which is more than just using a number pulled out of someone's butt.
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 15:49:29 -0500, taxed and spent

Speaking of the utility company, I wonder what their minimum monthly charge is.
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Your first mistake was buying your home without knowing what the deal is.
Your second mistake was agreeing to anything with your neighbor.
Your third mistake was not checking your property records to see what the deal is, hopefully there is something documented.
Your fifth mistake is not taking a mathematical approach to this.
Your sixth mistake is thinking some sort of measurement to figure out actual costs.
Your seventh mistake is not considering maintenance costs in addition to electric costs.
The idea of a separate well is expensive, that is why there is a shared well.
The idea of separate utility billing for the well is also expensive. In addition to the cost of an electrician, in my neck of the woods the utility company gouges you for a new service. REALLY gouges you.
The idea of separate utility billing also does not deal with quantity of water used or maintenance costs.
You need to do some math and see what is what. That is AFTER you look at the property records to see what is, hopefully, documented. (this may just say all costs will be shared, which puts you back to square one, with the option of turning her off totally ruled out, if it is not already due to a prescriptive easement theory).
You should consider a reserve account both you and your neighbor pay into for maintenance costs.
You are right to be aware that this is going to be a problem when you sell your condo, not just at the present.
Is this part of a larger condo complex? Are there other shared wells or systems (whether or not you or your neighbor are part of them)?
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On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 9:15:16 AM UTC-5, taxed and spent wrote:

...your 1st mistake...not having a 4th!
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:)
That is an exercise left to the student.
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On 9/13/2015 1:44 AM, NG wrote:

Long term, a separate meter would be the solution. Short term the Kill a watt is a cheap solution.
You are battling over $600 a year. You can probably involve a lawyer and quickly spend $6000 or more so better you come up with a solution you can live with. You can buy a meter that is easily attached and can be read independent of your home meter so nothing had to be coordinated. You read it once a month and split the bill. You should also work out how to pay for the inevitable repairs to the system. Put a few bucks into a fund every month until you have enough to cover a new pump so you don't take a big hit at one time.
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Two water meters and one electric meter. Done!
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it will take YEARS to pay for those with the savings to be had by the neighbor, cutting $50/month down to whatever.
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On 9/13/2015 11:42 AM, taxed and spent wrote:

Nah, it is about the same as one visit to the lawyer. EKM is one outfit that has electric meters under $100.
Watts has a water meter you can get for $60. For an hour or two of time and less than $250 in material you are set. Now just agree on a rate and maintenance fund, non-returnable if one party moves away.
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On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 12:19:39 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

He doesn't need a water meter, just to measure the electric used by the well pump and room heater. He mentioned a Killawatt, but AFAIK they only do 120V and the well pump is likely 240V so one like you suggest would work.
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If one condo uses much more water than the other, but perhaps not worth the bother.
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On 9/13/2015 12:25 PM, trader_4 wrote:

He doesn't need it to find the power use, but with a meter you can fairly apportion the costs to each user. One may be 80% of the costs and only paying half.
I work with a guy that is on a well supplying 4 houses. They have a meter and divide everything equally, including maintenance. Works for them as it is set up independent of the houses.
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On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 12:57:44 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Yes, I see your point. I wasn't focusing on the water usage difference between the two units. It depends on how involved you want to get. They could start with just measuring the electric, like you suggested. I'm betting they will find that it's nowhere near $100 a month. If it's more like $40 a month, then maybe they can just split it or do $25 versus $15, etc.

Just splitting it equally would be my inclination too, because I don't think there is a huge difference and much of it is the lawn and heater which are equal.
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you are suggesting submetering. I was replying to the previous posts saying put this on separate utility company meter.
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On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:40:40 -0700, "taxed and spent"

electric utility is one source - not read or charged separately by the utility. Determine the cost ratio by the usage ratio (water meters) or by some other agreed-on formula.
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