How much of a toilet's power....

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On 2/4/2011 8:08 AM, Bob Villa wrote:

I see your point.
It would seem to me that the initial pressure would be just of the depth of the tank, your point. Your point also about having the valve at the bottom of the pipe, which I don't believe they ever were.
Jeff
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Does anyone remember the tanks high on the wall that would fill slowly and then flush the urinals at school? (timed by the fill)
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wrote:

Close enough.
According to the chart below, 2.31 feet of water is 1 psi. That's a bit more than the height of a modern toilet tank off the bowl.
At 6.93 feet the psi is 3. That's also a bit more than the height off the bowl for the old high wall tanks.
http://www.accontrols.com/documents/WaterPressuretoFeetHead.pdf
As Jeff has said, better design has brought the tank down. They still sell the high tank toilets. http://www.plumbingsupply.com/oldtoilet.html
I wonder if the bowl design is different.
--Vic
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As I have said...the valve is not at the end of the pipe, it is in the tank. Pressure would not be the same.
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On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 06:29:32 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa

Maybe not, but as soon as the water hits the bowl whatever is left above it in the downpipe and tank still has head pressure pushing it down. They didn't hang them high for kicks.
--Vic
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I don't think it was a bad idea...just over-kill. I remember those tanks were open and sometimes you would feel a little spray before they got any depth of water in them. ^L^ I like the old fixtures and dark wood like you see in "The Water Horse".
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On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 07:29:21 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa

I have a vague recollection of the flush chain hanging down by the toilet, and getting splashed, but was too young to remember much. Saw a lot of them over urinals, but never paid attention to how they flushed.

Didn't see that. I used to like rich wood grain more, but not stained too dark. Think what changed my view is taking down the beautiful 4-piece crown in my last house to refinish it. PITA, and that 50 year old oak was light as balsa, or almost. 50 years had really dried it up. Just changed my view. Might be my eyesight. Like to keep rooms light colored. Still put new oak crown up in this house and had the oak floors refinished, so I do like wood. All "golden oak." Don't like it around water though. There's better materials, and they look good enough. When I lived summers with my grandfolks the toilet was all wood. Outhouse. Double-seater. Never had a partner when there though. Maybe grand dad put 2 seats in so if you had to go bad you had an option if one seat was occupied by spiders and their webs. I suppose a double makes since, just never saw 2 people using an outhouse at the same time.
--Vic
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I certainly did as a kid, Mama/Daddy escorted kids being toilet trained, ones scared of the dark, etc. No grownup double occupancy that I recall though.
Harry K
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On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), Harry K

Think I had 3 siblings during those years, all pre-teen and already toilet-trained. The outhouse was maybe thirty yards from the house. A path through brush led to it. Ozarks. I can't remember ever going to it in the dark, or a flashlight in the house. I would have been one of the scared ones, believing in snipes. But I don't trust my memories much anyway. Been proved wrong too often.
--Vic
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Vic Smith wrote:

It was a two-seater so the builder, obviously with a finely-honed sense of humor, could mount a speaker under the seat frame and broadcast "Would you mind moving over one, madam, I'm painting under here."
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wrote:

Still remember that one. A gas station in Missouri way I heard it told. Not told really, read it in Readers Digest or maybe Argosy or some such. Maybe 40 years ago. That joke has a long beard.
--Vic
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Double or triple the pressue _in the tank_ not in the bowl. There it increases the velocity.
Harry K
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But really, when the flush valve opens, the pressure is not what operates, it is the velocity of the water. The pressure is what gets you the velocity. Thus it doesn't matter what the pressure in the mains is, your tank height is all that counts. Even the "pressure assists" operate the same way.
You don't have "pressure" unless the water is confined in something.
Harry K
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those
that
of
speed of

tuning
But really, when the flush valve opens, the pressure is not what operates, it is the velocity of the water. The pressure is what gets you the velocity. Thus it doesn't matter what the pressure in the mains is, your tank height is all that counts. Even the "pressure assists" operate the same way.
You don't have "pressure" unless the water is confined in something.
Harry K
-------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it then that submarines get crushed when they descend below the aptly named "crush depth" in the unconfined ocean?
-- Bobby G.
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Unconfined ocean? Seems they are very well confined indeed. Stack anything up on itself and the bottom is going to feel pressure. An open stream of water is not confined. You can stick a pressure sensor in the flowing colume and it will not register any pressure. Now whatever the stream hits will feel pressure true but again that is the velocity at work being converted back to pressure as it is "confined" (actually obstructed).
experiment. Put bucket of water up high, hose stretchs down, check pressure at bottom of hose. Now open hose and watch teh pressure decrease drastically. It probably won't decrease to zero as the hose still has some restriction.
Harry K
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God! We are talking about how a _flush_ works, not what the pressure or anything else is in the tank prior to the flush. Any container will have pressure when filled with _anything_.
Again: Once the water exits those "orifaces" it has no pressure, only velocity because it is no longer confined.
BTW you can remove the tank full of water from the toilet, set it over the bowl and flush it. It will flush fine but not as well as designed. Try with a bucket of water.
Harry K
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<stuff snipped>

I think that's the reason tanks started out so high and gradually became part of the unit - improvements in the design of the bowl that faciliated the creation of a siphon where the weight of the water helps pull the waste down.
-- Bobby G.
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On 2/3/2011 9:24 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

All of it.
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On 2/3/2011 8:24 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

the incoming water has NO effect on the flush in a convention tank type toilet. you can turn the incoming valve off and still get the same result.
--
Steve Barker
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pressure?
result.
Good point. When I was repairing my toilet's wall connection, I flushed it by filling the tank with water from the bathtub. No connection to the water supply at all.
-- Bobby G.
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