how much is a square?

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Red Green, 11/2/2008,7:21:40 PM, wrote:

I have a two-car garage, three large bedrooms, big kitchen, big living room, converted den on garage level, two bathrooms. City assessment shows 1865 sq. ft. but I don't know if that includes the den and garage or just "livable space". Let's lower the dimensions to 78' x 38' which is probably closer to actual. Regarding the pitch, from the peak to about halfway down it's a steeper angle than it is from halfway down to the eave.
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badgolferman, 11/2/2008,9:44:21 PM, wrote:

Here's a front shot of the house before I bought it:
http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/3/11/2/f_Clipboard01m_c4bd762.jpg
Look at the right edge and see how the pitch changes.
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2-car garage is somewhere around 700 sf. Add that to 1865 sf for the house, and you're still at 2600 sf tops -- really hard to see how it's going to take 4000 sf of shingles to cover that...

"Probably". Meaning you haven't actually measured it. Meaning you're ripe for plucking by any unscrupulous contractor.

I'm trying hard to picture that... and coming to the conclusion that you stated that backwards.
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I think that is what is throwing you off. You are looking at the "city assessment" which shows 1865 sq. ft. That doesn't tell you the dimensions of your roof (which is over your porch, garage, overhang, etc). So, forget the 1865 sq. ft. and just use your actual roof dimensions to figure out the number of squares.
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alta47, 11/3/2008,2:43:11 AM, wrote:

I got out a tape measure and ran it across the ground. Without someone holding the end it came out to around 78' x 38'
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badgolferman wrote:

78 x 38 is 2964 sq. ft. Using the roofing calculator and a 6/12 slope it gives 37 squares.
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I did understand that you did those measurements. I was just pointing out that you started questioning the 40-square estimate that you received by stating that you only have an 1800 sq. ft. house.
As someone else posted, the real roof measurements that you took (78' x 38') make the 40-square estimate seem reasonable, especially since there is a second peak/ridge line for the peak that you see from the front of the house (based on the photo link you posted). That adds additional square footage to the area of the roof surface.
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sq ft for overhang. So far we have 1800 house+400 overhang"00sf total. Give 10% for waste and 10% for pitch. 2200+220+220 &40sf (27 square) for one level house with no garage.
Let's add in a 24x24 garage with the same assumptions.     garage 24x24W6sf     overhang 24x4x22sf     garage roof total about 775sf     waste & pitch add 20% - 775*1.20sf (about 10 square)
So the house and garage is 2640+930570. Now we are talking 36 square which says 40, as a guess, is possible. But if your place is two story then 40 square is way off.
Two story 24x40 with 2ft overhang.
    House 24*400sf of roofing     Overhang (24+24+40+40)*2%6sf     waste & pitch (960+256)*1.259sf or 15 square.
    Add in that garage and it's 15+10% square.
Let's see if I made some stupid blunder here. I'm sure someone will point it out! :-)
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I have a 60x30 one story ranch. Based on a square being 100 sq ft, a flat roof would be 18 squares. Figure in 6 ft to the peak and call it less than 20 squares. Than add 4 squares because I don't do these calcs for a living and round it up to 24 squares.
The first four estimates I got were 34, 32, 30, and 30 squares with prices ranging $5,400 to $7,500. Not one of the estimators took out a tape or walked the roof. Everyone of them said there was one layer already on the roof so it was a roof-over. When I said I wanted the roof torn off, they said it was unnecessary and would cost an extra $1,000 to $1,200. I knew there were two layers already on it.
A roof replacement was not an immediate need so I waited a year. Finally someone walked the roof. said it was 24 squares, already had two layers so it was a tear-off, had two soft-spots which would probably need new underlayment, made a few other suggestions, and priced it at $4,650.
It's the difference between dealing with a roofer and dealing with a commissioned sales person for a roofing company.
Dick
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Dick:
Where did you get these estimates?
Thanks
Olddog
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My experience dealing with many general contractors and roofing subs/companies over the years is that roofers are about the bottom of a generally rancid barrel. Most all of them have a bad attitude and far too many of them do a poor job to boot-- especially flashing around corners, valleys and the chimney.
I was doing a major add-on some years ago in suburban Atlanta and the GC had the roofing materials delivered-- except the nails for some reason. When the roofer arrived ( almost three hours late, he said he was walking off the job because he was only contracted for labor, not materials. I told him to go up to Home Depot (3 miles away) and get what he needed and I'd reimburse him. He said he wouldn't do that. Instead of letting the loser walk, I foolishly offered to go get the nails myself which I did.
He ended up doing a piss-poor job--- we had leaks and several other problems. The GC had the roof redone out of his pocket. Good for him....I guess he never used that roofer again. Not sure where he ever got him from. Most of the other subs on the job were OK--- except the HVAC...but that's another story...
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In a reserve study for HOAs, the area of the roof is taken from an aerial photo, then 10% is added for pitch. It is a standard, and fairly accurate estimate unless there is a high pitch ratio. For the purposes of estimation, this would be fairly accurate.
Why is it that so many people call estimators and don't get out there themselves with a tape and have an idea before the estimator gets there? YOU go out and measure and come up with 32 squares. One guy comes in at 30, another at 35, another at 40, and another at 45.
What does this tell you?
Simple math, and if you can't handle that, hand calculators are 99 cents now.
Steve
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It's a bitch when you know more than the estimator. You know there's two layers, and they swear there's one. Any idiot who says it is okay to roof over old shingles isn't a company worth hiring. It can be done, but they never see the under side, and therefore don't know if there's any repairs or replacement that needs to be done.
Hire the most reputable company in town. TELL then what you want done. Pay the money and enjoy your new roof.
Steve
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wrote:

When I had my roof done the last time I told the estimators I wanted 15 lb felt over the whole roof, plus the ice guard and 20 year shingles. Two etimators said I did not want the felt and I told them goodbye. The third said he had not been installing roofing felt for several years but if I was willing to pay for it he would gladly put it on. When I asked why he was not installing it as general practice he said "because everybody is too cheap to pay for it". He said he figured the extra cost of the roofing felt would pay for itself about 4 times over in extended roof life. (I think the roofing felt, installed, raised the cost by about $200)
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Dick Adams wrote:

Only if you have flat roof. Multiply your answer by the secant of your roof angle to get the correct answer.
Boden
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wrote:

Well, for one, a "ranch" is a single story - otherwize known (in many markets) as a bungalow and USUALLY has a relatively low pitch roof. The "typical" ranch has no valleys, but of course there are exceptions.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in sq ft for overhang. So far we have 1800 house+400

Unless it's a raised ranch. Then it's not two or one story. But you're getting 2x sq footage under the roof. But in that case maybe not 2x sq footage of living space because of a garage being under living space of the upper floor.
This is all technocrat info. I read the OP as trying to get his feet wet to get a fair deal and doesn't have a lot of up front knowledge...and that's fine. That's what this NG is about. The info I posted was intended for the OP to look at, ponder and hopefully end up with "Ohhhhhh!, now I see how it works!".
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On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:24:19 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Square is 10X10. Generaly 3 bundles to the square if I remember from the last roof I did.
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Whatever you do, get good venting, too. Such as ridge vent. Get rid of turbines, and no need for power vents if you have good venting. Make sure the soffit venting is not obstructed.
wrote:

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