How much force to tip over a tree

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I have a columnar white pine tree, about 40 feet tall and maybe 8" in daimeter at the base, I need to remove. I am considering trying to use an old climbing rope and a come-along to winch it out of the ground. I figure that if I attach the rope to the tree about 30 feet from the ground, it shouldn't be too hard to winch it over. I would used prussiks to allow me to pull it multiple winch- fulls to move it far enough to break roots (with a little axe help maybe). Does anyone have any idea how much force this should take? Will it work?
Bob
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wrote:

You gotta be kidding !!!!!
Have you ever heard of a chainsaw? I can guarantee that if your winch, cable, whatever you use does not fail first, the tree will snap off somewhere along the trunk, and the snapback will likely hurt someone and/or damage property. Cut it down, then use the winch to help remove the stump while you dig and chop roots.
(You CAN connect your winch to help assist the tree to fall the desired way, when you saw it off. Just snug it up before you start sawing, and of course know how to make the cut).
Of course you could always call a tree expert too !!!!
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maybe).
Once it's cut, the winch is going to be a whole lot less effective. No leverage.
Bob
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Bob F wrote:

Bob, I really think you are going to be a lot safer following the advice. It may be a little more work, but think of this: If it were easier and safe, don't you think the professional loggers would have been doing it for years?
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
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Loggers dont pull the stumps
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I think lots of great opinions here! Roots will always be an issue, depends on how old they are, how far they travelled, how much water they got over the life to determine which direction they travelled, etc. Yes, Pine have larger root systems than Palms, but each tree will be different. There is no magic answer. Key is: SAFETY! A tree this size is DANGEROUS and can cause REAL damage to surrounding stuff (like humans).
Suggestion: Tie a rope/chain to the top section and connect it to a known SAFE area. Lop the tree at 25 feet or so (which will fall towards the rope/chain), then again at 10 feet (again with the rope/chain guiding it's descent). Dispose of those two sections. Now, dig around the tree trunk a bit and see if you can saw the stump below grade. If so, and if you do not plan to build anything on top of it, simply cover it with soil and enjoy your new yard. Alternatively, get a stump grinder to level what sticks up. They can be found for under $100 and their machine takes 20 minutes or less to unload, grind and load.
Joseph Meehan wrote:

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Bob F wrote:

I have no idea but I can tell you a palm tree can easily be pushed over with a tractor.

Kinda doubt it. The only pines I have any experience with are Southern yellow and they have a pretty good root system. I imagine your rope will break first and if you beef up your rope to 1" Dacron or so or a stout wire rope I suspect the trunk will snap.
--

dadiOH
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Probably because palms are not really trees.

Pines were used for masts on sailing ships hundreds of years ago. Today's pines are probably not nearly as strong, but still... two-four cuts with a chainsaw and a nice push are all it takes. Even I took down a tree that size when I was a teen, with my dad and brother. Really no big deal.
S
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mrsgator88 wrote:

No big deal until it doesn't fall where you want it. I have been cutting firewood (up to 12 cord/year) for over 30 years and I still won't fall a tree in tight quarters. Using a cable or chain (definitely not the run of the mill rope) tied somewhere up in the tree to "guide the fall" is not the answer either. Once you snug it up and make the falling cuts, any guidance is lost as soon as the tree begins to fall and the cable goes slack.
Harry K
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dadiOH wrote:

The roots on palm trees are about six inches long. In LA, people STEAL palm trees with a wrecker - just pluck-n-go.
On a pine, there is more tree BELOW ground than above.
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HeyBub wrote:

That is not true. Pine trees have a small root ball, and are very prone to being blown over. They are very easy to knock down as I know from experience. I owned a logging company in East Texas (unfortunately during the Carter administration). Our skidder could easily push over a 10-12" pine. No way with an oak or a hickory. Part of my side work was to remove pines blown over by high winds. Oaks would snap in half. Oaks ARE larger underground than above, but this is not true of pines.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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Robert Allison wrote:

Well, that doesn't speak too well for your business acumen, does it?

Okay. You caught me. I exaggerated. Let me restate.
"Almost ALL trees have MORE organic matter below ground than they do above. Not just pines."
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HeyBub wrote:

I had no control over the politics of the decade. I did, however, have control over my costs. While others were purchasing their equipment, I was leasing. When the bottom fell out of the construction industry and it became increasingly difficult to find mills to buy logs, I was able to get out of the business. Others had huge notes to pay and many went bankrupt. I don't really get to count that as tremendous business acumen as much as it was just plain dumb luck.

It should be: Except for pines and a few other species.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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Robert Allison wrote:

Depends on the type pine. Here in the south the majority of pines (Loblolly & SYP) have a tap root that anchors the tree really deep into the ground. Not a dense root system, but a deep one. A hurricane or tornado will break them off, but will *not* blow them over. Oaks on the other hand have a massive root system but it is shallow with no tap root. A saturated ground and a strong wind will blow over 100 year old oaks fairly often.
Bob S.
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wrote:

We have a lot of pine trees around here. I remember my father telling me that the pine has a root that goes as far below the surface as the tree grows above it.
--
63 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
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<...snipped...>

Yeah, my Dad used to exaggerate too.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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wrote:

My banana tree can be pushed over with one hand. My pecan tree would break before it pulled loose. My Willow could be pulled over with a 10 ton bulldozer anchoring the winch.
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What's the highest wind it's been exposed to? At V mph, P = 0.00256V^2 psf, eg 6.4 psf at 50 mph. On a 40'x10' wide tree, this would make 2560 pounds with a 2560x20 = 51.2K lb-ft moment, vs 1 ton x 30' up = 60K lb-ft.

It might, if the force is applied over a long time, eg a month. You might tie the top of the tree to the base of another with 5 loops of 400 pound rope and tighten it every few days with the come-along, so you can keep it out of the rain, and water the base of the tree.
Nick
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You're kidding, right?

A whole lot more force than is required to break the tree trunk.
Or your rope.

Nope.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Not likely! and all abit dangerous - climbing 30 ft to attach the winch for a start. There is no way that you are going to break roots. HAve a look at some photos from the latest hurricane/cyclone/typhoon. Roots don't break, they come out of the ground , but only with the right amount of encouragement.
Try a chainsaw, or if you don't like them, an 8" diameter trunk really wont take too long with a good sharp axe.
If you are at all worried about where the thing will fall, call a professional!.
Come to think of it - call a professional anyway!
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