How much are you really paying for electricity?

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On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:54:42 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Varies by state, but in MA, it was about 8 or 10 years ago it started. It is not about regulation or de-regulation, it is about who is going to control the flow and take your money. Why let them utilities have it when brokerage firms can get in on the act and resellers and speculators can make millions.

Many ways to buy. If you are a really large user, you may be buying on a daily basis from whoever offers the best deal of the day or hour.
Cut offs are for the low cost buyer willing to take a risk and be shut down. This only happens in cold weather when demand goes very high during a particularly cold period. It is not a matter of having the gas, it is the ability to move it to where needed. Shut one smallish industrial boiler down and 100 houses have more to use.
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It *couldn't* have something to do with government, then. <snicker>

At least in some cases it's because the utilities aren't allowed to.

If you are a large user, you're probably buying in the futures market, you so detest.

You say that like it's a bad thing?
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On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:47:25 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
.

No, just pointing that it is a "thing", another option. It is just not so simple as compared to the small home or business user. With a mild winter, it is a good thing with no down time.
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Sure, but it allows the market to decide priorities. I see that as a *good* thing. No down-side at all.
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On 3/17/2012 10:16 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Same in PA. You make your deal with the brokers and then the pipeline folks transport it.

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On 3/17/2012 8:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Not Ed but that is a perfect example of the "free market" at work. Nothing regulates such contracts. A family member is responsible for managing the utilities at a facility with mega watt consumption and he has shown me some of their agreements.

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On 03/14/2012 11:32 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
[snip]

You seemed to have answered that question yourself. So did the OP. Stated rates are always dishonest AFAIK. I don't seen to have ever received an electric bill that didn't have additional stuff added to it.

I live in one of the few areas where you can't choose, and the rates are lower. This has no effect on what I said earlier (real rates are higher than what they SAY they are).
BTW, I haven't yet figured out who's messing with my sig (removing the newline after my name). It's a file, which has the same line ending there as after all the other lines.
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re: "I don't seen to have ever received an electric bill that didn't have additional stuff added to it."
Take a look at your cell phone bill.
When you have an all-inclusive plan, there's typically one line for the cost of the plan and 47 lines of taxes, fees, kickbacks, tolls and duties.
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On 03/15/2012 01:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip]

True. They could be the worst offenders.
BTW, I remember a $39.95 phone plan that was supposed to include everything. They don't tell you the bill comes to about $60.
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If you don't like all those charges, get a prepaid plan.
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I guess it may be different with your utiltiy. Here in NJ it's seperated into a charge by the Kwh for the energy generation and a charge by the Kwh for the delivery. There is an additonal customer charge of $2.20 per month. None of that seems complicated, hard to understand or dishonest to me.
As for the OP, I believe he is comparing the charge for just the electric generation to the total bill. I'm sure on the bill it's similar to what a lot of us have reported here, the bill today often contains two charges which form the core of the usage. One for the energy generation, one for the delivery to your home. Here it's about 60% for generation and 40% for delivery. And of course if you ignore one of them, then the total bill isn't going to look right.
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On 3/14/2012 11:44 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

I guess mine is too easy to be true. For electric service there is an $11 'basic service' charge and a $114.46 'electric kWh' charge. The bill I'm looking at shows 1376 kWh used giving a per-kW cost of $0.0832 (or about $0.0912 if you look at it the other way. Pretty cheap compared to most of what I've seen here. Total utility bill for electric, gas, water, and waste was $210.05 on the last one received covering February and the beginning of March for a 2400sf 3BR brick home.
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wrote:

If it makes it less painful, just bend over and take it <grin>. Most appliances I see which try to calculate electric useage of late, seem to use 10 or 11 cents kWh. You got me curious now to see how much up the _ss I'm taking it of late. I'll try to follow up on this post and report back what I'm paying outside of Houston. We do have a choice of electric providers around here but IMO they don't differ that much.
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2 different items were purchased:
Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh
There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a kWh of electricity is $0.06968.
When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95 for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?
I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost was $56.95.
It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently, they really do need to be separated out.
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In at least some places they can also come from different suppliers. Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. One of them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution portion. The others are independent companies. So even though the same wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one of the new competitors.
Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it. It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.
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I'm in NJ as well, and our total cost here is higher than in Chicago(?), almost 19c/kWh here in PSE&G territory. And the costs are clearly specified as mentioned.
--
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wrote:

Same where I live. I can buy my electricity and gas from a few different suppliers, but it always gets delivered by the lone utility company in the area.
No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are they bar coded or something?
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LOL! No, but the utility has to buy your kWh from somewhere (if you specify another company), or generate them (if you don't).
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...or generate it all, sell it to the other company (on paper, of course) and then deliver it to me.
Since many of these "other companies" simply buy the energy that they sell on the wholesale market, the same utility that delivers it to me may have the best wholesale prices at any given time.
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On 3/14/2012 10:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

you can tell because they taste differently
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