How does a 110volt 2 speed motor work

I keep replacing the 2 speed motor for the water pump on my spa, the new ones keep over-heating. The original one lasted ten years. If I understood how the motor works in general, e.g. what changes to give it a higher speed, I might be able to figure out why I am burning up motors on high suddenly.
Thanks in advance.
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1_Patriotic_Guy wrote:

Hi, Maybe the replacement is under powered? Lower Hp rating? Try little heavier spec.'d one. Tony
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This is urtle.
The first mistake do it yourselfers make is to not use a OEM motor. If your going to try out Universial motors on the spa. You need to look at all motors and look to see that the R.P. M. , Amp draw, Horse power, Power factor , and speed verses horse power matches. With all this in place you can use universal motors and not go back to the original OEM motor.
Now one thing in this hunt for the right motor. You need to keep the original motor for referrence in the future or at least keep the motor tag to use to know what the original OEM motor was in the futrure.
Now you ask for a website to match up the motor that you have now. State the brand and maybe the tag info and i can give you a website to match with.
TURTLE
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Thanks for the initial contact Urtle. Wow -- All info on old and replacement motor is the same unless noted below:
1) I'm not good with acronyms, what is OEM? 2) Brand is Hayward (who uses a Smith motor) and adds their "wet-end" pump. 3) HP is 1.5 4) RPM is 3450 / 1725 5) Max amps on old is 15 / 3.5 on old; 12 / 3.1 on new I still have the original motor, the electrical contacts carbon up and over-heat when motor is run on high. The same thing happened with the replacement after using the spa for 1 hour. Previously the old motor was used for as long as 3 hours at once on high and performed well for ten years. The low speed function of the motor only comes on when the thermostat determmines more heat is needed.

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1_Patriotic_Guy wrote:

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer. It means the part is the same as was originally installed by the manufacturer, rather than some third party manufacturer's almost-as-good-as replacement part.

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are you replacing the motor only? if yes, check the pump end is something stuck in the impeller housing? you said the contacts get loaded w/ carbon, is your heater on thed same circuit? and you prob have a blower for bubbles, shut heater off and no bubbles see if your mtor still overheats.oem is" original manufacurers equipment" alsoVERY IMPORTANT WHEN REPLACING MOTOR: CHECK THE FRAME MIGHT SAY TEFC "totally enclosed fan cooled" and the rating is made for continous duty or intermittent? is your motor in a non vented area?
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1_Patriotic_Guy wrote:

This looks ??? New one draws less current which means under powered in general. Try to find one with higher current value/Hp and rpm does not have to exact match I guess.

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Guy;
The speed is a standard - carbon build up on 'contacts' I'm guessing is the contactor. You should expect the contacts to darken. Contactors are designed to 'self clean.'
But Tony H. is right. You need to be in the same amp. draw as the original and horsepower. Playin tennis is also correct. If you're pump is 'covered' as inside the spa base for example, you're motor needs to have a high temp. rating. Otherwise it will overheat, and have difficulty. There are motors available that run in hotter environments.
If you don't know what the original motor called for, call the Manufacture of the spa and they will either sell you the correct pump motor or give you the spec. If you have the owner's manual, check it.
BTW: The motor you have is an A.O. SMITH. Popular for pump motor applications.
--
Zyp
"Tony Hwang" < snipped-for-privacy@shaw.ca> wrote in message
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This is Turtle.
Like others said OEM is Original Equipment of Manufactor. THE SAME MOTOR.
You have a smaller motor as looking at the Max. Amp draw with even the Horse Power being the same. You have a 20% less horse power or ability on 220 volt service and a 11% less ability or horse power on 120 volt service. Look at the old motor and see if you can get a horse power reading off it. If not you have to go by Max. Amp draw for replacing with. Not all 1.5 H.P. motor are the same in ability. There is Power factors to concider , R.P.M. , and Totally close or open face for cooling the motor. These things can be a big difference.
Look at the Wiring setting for the speed to be 3,450 RPM's or the 1,725 RPM's. If the motor is to be set at 1725 rpm's for the pump on low and 3450 rpm's on high. Look at the thermostat about turning on two speeds at one time. Anytime you turn on 2 speeds at one time. It will run hot and drop out. This is a very long shot and just saying it for good measure.
Well what i will say is it sounds like and looks like you have a under powered motor and asking more out of it than it can put out by looking at the /Max. Amp draw and knowing nothing else.
Look you need to find the Model number of the old motor and get a OEM from your supplier which they can order for you. Now you can call the maker of the spa [ like others have said ] to get a motor from them or get the spec.s of the motor to get from your supplier. Here is what you need if you don't get a model number of the old motor.
Horse Power ------------- R.P.M's ---- You have it already Max. Amp draw -- You have it already . Power factor of motor ------------------ Totally sealed motor or open face for cooling the motor ----------------- This should do it.
Now here is a wild one for good measure. take your old motor to a motor shop and have them put new bearing in it if it is not burnt up. This is not a big cost item to do.
TURTLE
P.S. Power factor is the ability to run at above the stated horse power for a long period of time. If the factor is say 1.25 . You can get 25% more horse power out of the motor and not hurt it.
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Turtle, Thanks for the initial lesson. I am trying to fill in the blanks and learn so that I can use my spa for years to come. 1) The new motor is totally sealed as was the old. The plate on the new motor says Type = CSM. I assume this stands for Continuos Service Motor? Time = CONT I assume this is short for continuous? 2) The plate on the new motor also says: ENCL = DP, Form = PHM, Code = A, Insulation Class = B, AMB = 40 degrees C Are these important? Can you educate me on any of these that are. 3) On the new motor it says HP = 1.5 SPL If SPL is important, what is it? 4) For my knowledge/understanding; What is changed to make my motor run at high speed (looking at it, the coils and windings look the same as a single speed motor)? The thermostat turns the pump on low when it senses heat is needed. High is only achieved by pushing a button on the user control panel on top of the spa. But what changes to make the motor run on high. When I wired it I connected red (low speed), black (high speed), white (common) and green (ground) wires. Yet the old a new motors clearly say they are 110 volts. I used to think changing the voltage or do I mean amps? (e.g. electricity flowed through just the red wire on low, 110 volts, and both the red and black wire, 220 volts, on high) changed the speed but now assume I was very wrong on this. Could you correct my thinking on this please. 5) If I understand you correctly, even though the plate on both motors says 1.5 horsepower, my new 110volt motor gets 11% less HP than my old because the amps is lower, 3.1 on new, 3.46 on old? I assume there is an equation for this, may I know it? (3.46 - 3.1) / 3.1 = .11 Is that the equation? 6) I understand you when you say Power factor is the ability to run at above the stated horse power for a long period of time. If the factor is say 1.25 . You can get 25% more horse

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This is Turtle.
We are getting very complex here over nothing.
1) All 1.5 horse power motors are not all equal. You get a motor with the same horse power to replace it with and then see if the amp draw on the voltage you choose is up to the original amperage as the old one. You must match up the horse power and the amperage and then it will cut out you tring to figure out the power factors and weither it will work or not.
2) You have not stated the horse power of the old one or the new one above here and you may not be dealing with a 1.5 horse power motor to be replaced. Which motor states that it is a 1.5 horse power -- the old or the new? Without the stated horse power of both you can just go by amp draw to match it up.
3) As I see it you just have a too small of a motor to handle the job by looking at the amp draw. You can have more amp draw but not less. Amp draw equates to horse power in the world of motors. Match up the Amp draw / R.P.M. Speed / Voltage and you really don't care about the horse power.
4) Most original manufactors of spa's order their motor to be put on the tube with out the power factor stated on them for with out it. You get into trouble finding a replacement like is happening here. Now if you match the amp draw up , you don't care about the power factor for your setting the load of the motor back where it should be. The power factor is reflected in the amp draw amperage stated on the motor. Match the amp draw and the power factor is not needed.
A example here some 1.5 H.P. motor may have a amp draw of 5 amps on 220 volt service and other may have amp draw of 3.1 amps on 220 volt service. This raising and lowering of the amperage on the 1.5 H.P. motor which amp draw rasting on the motor is a reflection of the power factor stated in the amp draw of the motor.
Don't get complex here and just install a replacement more with a amp draw the same or a little more to make it work fine. Your old motor has a amp draw of 3.6 amps on 220 volt service. Get another motor with a amp draw of 3.6 amps or more. Just get you a amp draw of 4 or 5 amp draw on 220 volt service and just do fine. The Horse power may very from one motor to the other but the amp draw tell the tale of it working or not.
The way you stated as the less ability of the old and the new motor is very much true and is the way you figure if you short on ability of the old and new motor. Your 11% short on amp draw to pull the load. Don't '' never '' expect a 3.1 amp draw motor to pull a 3.6 amp draw load. You can use high amp draw motor to pull the load but not less amp draw motor to pull the load.
Your making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Match the amp draw / r.p.m.'s / voltage ,and be done with it. If you have these three things you don't care what the horse power is. The Horse power rating is just to give the customer a '' ideal '' of how much power they need and to be exact , you go to the amp draw / speed / r.p.m.'s.
TURTLE
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Thanks in advance.
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