How do you snake a kitchen sink & how to remove a corroded steel nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?

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On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

are only setting yourself up for an even bigger job as you chase broken drain pipes up and down the wall cavity until you finally give up and call a plumber, which you should've done in the first place.

collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.
Crazy talk. Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." Besides, you don't how far the T is in the wall. So it's the right tool for removing the stub. But I never recommended that, just answered his tool question. He never posted pictures. It's possible the exposed threads can be chased with a die, doped, and work just fine. There's no real pressure on drains, very little movement of fittings under a sink, and nothing wrong with a good dose of dope as long as the threads will take some tightening of the fitting used. Also proposed using a Fernco on it. But he went ahead and ordered an expensive tool that he may never use again. May be rentable too. He's collecting tools and having fun. I still recommend all of the above before removing the stub, but I think he'll remove the stub. And that's fine as long as he keeps having fun. Hope the stub comes out clean. Might be a good idea to run this in the T after it comes out. http://www.toolup.com/ridgid_35850_tap-1-12-npt-e5119.aspx Oh-oh.
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On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Hi Vic,
You were wholly correct - the nipple was badly rusted - but even so, as you predicted, it certainly would not crush easily.
I snapped this picture of my sister's sink, showing WHY it was impossible to run a snake through the top, without removing the strainer basket apparatus:

My Easter temporary repair was badly leaking, so much that she had placed a bowl but it still allowed the pipes to leak:

There was a twist fitting at the top of each sink, which was easy to remove with a pair of curved locking pliers:

With the two sink compression fittings off, the plumbing just fell out of the nipple (it was NOT twisted into the nipple!).

Applying penetrating oil was probably too little too late, as it did absolutely nothing - even after banging for 10 minutes, which only served to loosen up crud which piled up below:

A closeup shows there was potentially more nipple sticking out than I at first thought - due to a corroded faceplate:

The faceplate would not spin off, but it peeled off easily. Now I could finally see WHAT the nipple was screwed into:

Applying heat sounds like a good idea, but, in reality, it was a bad idea as the wood started burning. I couldn't figure HOW to apply heat to JUST the pipe that the nipple was screwed into!

Now it was time to twist the nipple off. I lined up my curved jaw pliers and my pipe wrenches, and, one by one, they each failed:

This fancy offset pipe wrench was the worst disappointment of all! It wouldn't bite in the least, no matter what I tried. It just kept slipping. I realized at that point that it did NOT have serrated jaws. The jaws are perfectly smooth. Which is useless!

This curved-jaw vise grip also failed its promise. It wouldn't stay on as I twisted, no matter how hard I clamped it down on the nipple:

So, it was back to the basic pipe wrenches! I lined them up, starting from the smallest to the largest - to try to remove the recalcitrant nipple:

The smallest pipe wrench fit and bit beautifully; but lying on my back, pushing UP with the wrench (it would not fit on the left side, pushing down), was a dismal failure. Nothing budged.

The third pipe wrench size fit perfectly - but again - it would only fit on the right side, which necessitated lying on my back and pushing upward to try to spin the 1960s rusted-on nipple off:

I banged. I pushed. I swore. I banged and pushed s'more. I failed:

After an hour or more of getting nowhere, I finally decided to listen to your suggestions and to move on to plan "B", which was to use the Fernco fitting:

Of course, the Fernco fitting necessitated cutting off the female threaded coupling that was supposed to be threaded onto the male nipple:

At this point, I belatedly realized that, even with a trunk chock full of tools, I had forgotten to bring a hacksaw, and, my sister had no tools that would have done me any good. So, I fabricated a quick jig out of an angle grinder & some nearby brick ornamental work - which allowed me to spin the pipe into the stationary angle grinder - and I was able to sand down the rough edges on the concrete (which worked surprisingly well!):

I had only PVC cement with me, so I headed off to the hardware store to pick up ABC cement, which I used to glue the new 45 degree elbow and straight pipe onto the threaded end of the P-trap horizontal pipe:

Finally, I wiggled it all together, and, tested it with a sink full of water - and while it looks like hell, it didn't leak anymore (which was the primary constraint). I'm not sure how long this will last (I really preferred to put a new nipple on), but, as Oren is fond of saying, "It looks OK from way out here":

I DO have some questions - but this post is long enough that I will put them in a separate post.
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Looks like you did a good job to me.
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wrote:

Oh, except maybe for:
1 - Does that trap have nut fittings on both sides so that it's removable?
2 - If not, is there a cleanout in the bottom?
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On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 05:40:12 -0700 snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

No & No.
I didn't change the P-trap pipe, as I was afraid of changing the geometry too much (I'm inexperienced).
You might notice that even slicing off only 2 inches of pipe changed the geometry enough that it's not really a perfectly straight shot into the Fernco.
Here's a full-size picture showing a slight bulge at the Fernco itself:

My lesson learned was that, in addition to pipe & PVC cement, I was cursing myself in that I should have bought a few elbows of various angles instead of just the one 45° elbow because just slicing off a tiny bit changed the geometry alone.
Meanwhile, my sister was asking me why it was taking so long to simply remove the nipple ... (she always thinks I take too long to do any job).
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Not good. Now you have no way of cleaning out the trap, snaking, etc without cutting it apart. There is nothing super special about the geometry. It's just a question of lining the similar parts up.

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On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:50:19 -0700 snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I appreciate the advice - and I understand that without a cleanout, dissassembly is required ... but ... my logic (is it wrong?) was that we could now unscrew the bottom of the p-trap and then unscrew one end of the Fernco, and by doing that, the bottom half of the P-trap would just slip out.
Won't it?
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Yes, you're right. You can take it apart that way and it's fine. Sorry
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On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

In hindsight, chasing the threads is probably the best idea.
But, I did not have a die, and, well, none of the rental shops I had called yesterday had the internal pipe wrench so I doubt they'd have a 1.5 inch pipe die.
Out of curiosity, had I bought a pipe die, should it have been this $275 setup I just found by googling?
RIDGID Pipe Threading Head, 1 1/2 In, RH, Alloy http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RIDGID-Complete-Pipe-Threading-Head-4NV28 Price (ea.) $172.00     Complete Pipe Threading Head, NPT Size 1 1/2 Inches, Includes Set of RH, Alloy Dies Grainger Item #4NV28, Model #37410, UNSPSC #27112805    
Along with this handle: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RIDGID-Threader-Ratchet-and-Handle-3AFP4      Grainger Item #3AFP4     Price (ea.) $100.95    
Which would have cost about $275 ... or is there a cheaper way to re-thread 1.5 inch steel nipples?
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On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 04:54:49 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

That's about it. For the smaller sizes, up to 3/4" you could a solid hex die for maybe 20 bucks. But 1 1/2" is big bucks. Unless you're doing a lot of threading, IOW it's your job, forget about buying pipe threading tools. See if you can rent or borrow. It would be much cheaper to have a plumber come in than what you'll end up paying for dies. Plug "pipe die' into eBay for an idea of the different types. I re-piped my last house about 30 years ago using a non-ratcheting Rigid set that I borrowed from my uncle. I remember pricing them then and they were expensive. Still are. But that was all 1/2" and 3/4" and I don't remember how big that set went. Did bigger pipe on a thread cutting machine in the steel mills. Don't remember how big those went either. I might re-pipe the galvanized steel pipe in this house but will look into PEX first. If I go with galvanized I'll buy a cheap kit, You can get them for 50 bucks for 1/2' and 3/4" Not many cuts, and if it threads maybe 20 ends before the dies wear out, that's enough. I did notice this set on eBay that has 1 1/2". http://tinyurl.com/cyhhbdg Don't think it's worth paying 50 bucks for one time use when your Fernco is doing the job. .
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On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 06:05:42 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Thanks. Services out here (Silicon Valley) are expensive, so, I generally can get the job done for parts and tools that equal a service call (which I would call a win because I get to keep both the tools and knowledge gleaned).
One question I have.
Here is a large-format picture of the fitting:

WHAT is the nipple threaded into? Is that a cast-iron fitting? Or galvanized?
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On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:44:18 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Can't tell from the picture. You can find a way to spark test with a grinder on the internet, but I've never done it. It could be black pipe, which is basically the same material as galvanized but without the zinc coating. I'm not up on the metallurgy, just know that cast iron is brittle. I've got galvanized pipe and black iron elbows here for the sink lines, and cast iron for the toilet stack. Think it's all original, which would be 1960 or so.
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On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:02:40 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Thanks. I can't tell either. I'm going to presume it's the original steel "T" fitting from the days of Eisenhower or Kennedy.
The interesting thing is that the kitchen was previously renovated in its entirety, so, that means the original installers didn't remove the nipple - perhaps because they too couldn't get the nipple off either, even without the kitchen cabinet in place?
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the fitting is clearly cast iron
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On 4/2/2013 10:54 PM, Danny D. wrote:     

A relatively small triangular file.
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On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:37:24 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:

collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

I can go to Home Depot right now and take a piece of brand new 1-1/2" chrome-plated metal drain tubing and crush it easily with a pair of Cha-nel-lock pliers.
We're not talking about galvanized pipe here we're talking about light-gauge drain tubing.
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On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 07:31:15 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

chrome-plated metal drain tubing and crush it easily with a pair of Cha-nel-lock pliers.

No. It's pipe.
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ce you collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

es,

rome-plated metal drain tubing and crush it easily with a pair of Cha-nel-l ock pliers.

auge drain tubing.

+1 It's obviously a 1 1/2 galvanized nipple, which is commonly what you find coming out of the wall, not chrome plated drain tubing.
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On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 01:56:57 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

UPDATE & QUESTIONS:
Q: How does one snake a kitchen sink? A: In general, you don't; however, you 'can' remove the basket from underneath the sink, and then snake - or - you can open up the fittings at the P-Trap and snake from there if you want.
Q: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes with a cleanout? A: The pipes are already as large as can be, although mine were cheap Home Depot style - so a plumber might use thicker grade pipe. The cleanout would be nice - but I didn't see any at Home Depot with the cleanout.
Q: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out? A: An internal pipe wrench might work - but the problem will STILL be you need an awfully huge amount of leverage - which you'll likely just not have. In my case, there actually was enough room to get the pipe wrench on the nipple, once I peeled off the faceplate, but even with a pipe wrench, WD-40, and a propane torch, the nipple would not budge. I doubt the internal pipe wrench will give me any more leverage.
Q: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple? A: No, but a Fernco fitting will work just fine (and it did).
KEY QUESTION:
Since the proper way to fix this was likely either to chase the threads, or to replace the nipple, the key related question regarding why I failed to remove the nipple, is:
Q1: How do you get enough leverage to remove the nipple anyway?
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)?

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rage.

You have no idea what you are doing, not even mastery of the basic vocabulary ....
You ask nonsensical questions, sometimes you answer them yourself but often incorrectly. You make false assumptions & arrival at illogical conclusions.
You seem as though you MIGHT be learning some things but it's hard to tell.
You do take good photos, even if the descriptions & techniques make no sense. You post them to A.H.R as if they represent great discoveries.... interesting indeed.
You post so many questions perhaps a unique numbering system is in order.
You may not be very experienced or knowledgeable but you sure are persistent. Must fall under the heading of "too stupid to know that you don't know".
yeah, I think there's a biblical thing about that.
Suggestion.. research & read about your repairs post less, read more, you'll learn quicker
Hint: You're asking the wrong questions.
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