House wiring problem

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Stormin Mormon wrote:

The 3 lite tester uses a lot higher current than a digital meter so it shouldn't show phantom voltage.
But it has its own problems. In particular, it can't test for sure there is a good ground. As with a digital meter, you should know the limitations of test equipment.
--
bud--

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wrote:

you mean a low resistance ground?If the ground is not connected, the 3 lite will show you. But you are right - it cannot tell you if the ground is up to the required standard.
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On 4/3/2010 5:13 PM snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca spake thus:

The tester would expect ground to be at or about at the same potential as neutral. That's as far as it can go, and as you point out, it can't really determine the "goodness" of the ground, only whether it's present and close to the neutral potential.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I never had a 3 lite tester until rather recently. The package explicitly said it would not determine if the ground was good. Also doesn't determine if hot or neutral are good, but you can tell when you use the outlet.
There are other possibilities. Like if there is no ground and an idiot wires a receptacle neutral to the ground, and then an idiot - the same or new - replaces a receptacle upstream and accidentally swaps the hot and neutral. The 3 lite tester will show the receptacle with a hot ground as OK. Real unlikely, but ....
--
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Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can really trust?
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Dave wrote:

I believe there was a trick to make a digital meter NOT show phantom voltage, but i don't remember what it is. I have a $6 meter in my bag for house electrical issues. The digital is reserved for the automotive use.
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On 4/4/2010 3:15 PM Steve Barker spake thus:

Simple: put a large-ish resistance (say, 50-100K ohms) across the leads to reduce the input impedance. This will shunt any phantom (induced) voltages away from the meter.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

A light bulb is better else you may forever have imprinted on your memory the smell of a burning resistor.
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On 4/4/2010 5:16 PM HeyBub spake thus:

You're not going to get a burning resistor, Bub.
Do the math. Using Ohm's law, let's say we gots a 100K resistor. If the voltage is 120, the current through it is 1.2 mA, and the power being dissipated is a little more than 1/8 watt. So use a 1/4 watt resistor if you're paranoid. Maybe a 1/2 watt one for up to 240 volt measurements.
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Well, you must be an engineer?
--
Christopher A. Young
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On Apr 4, 9:33pm, "Stormin Mormon"

That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a good technician with installation/repair experience can diagnose almost immediately...
~ Evan
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In wrote:

Hmm, let's see, who should I trust? The engineer who intuitively knows and understands what the max wattage will be and its impact on the resistor? Something he knows intuitively, BTW, and confirms almost instantly in his mind? Or, should I trust the experienced one that says to use a 47 ohm resistor but actually only THINKS that's what it was? Besides, a 47 ohm resistor won't "explode". We had to go all the way down to a 2.2 1/8 watt before it'd explode the resistor; that was one surprised tech when he turned his bench on! Wish I could remember the composition; it wasn't carbon. In many cases, such as this one, the engineer has MORE experience in the outcome due to his knowledgable experience than the "experienced" who simply depends on "it's always been that way" and has no idea whether he's approaching a cold, a hot, or a flaming resistor? They both have the experience; but only one knows for sure it's the applicable experience to that situation.
No, I'm not an inja-neer. I just understand reality.
HTH,
Twayne`
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Evan wrote:

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on something some where. I was not one of them.
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On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could *easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact, it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of information necessary.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell. LOL!
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On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

?????????
[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]
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On 04/05/2010 07:50 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

old school electrician, licks two fingers and places them across two terminals. "yup, feels like about 120."
seriously, I've seen it.
nate
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== Lick fingers, place them across two terminals and then touch GROUND with other hand and BINGO possible electrocution. Bad enough when it happens accidentally but to deliberately do it is dumb. I was using an old BD hand-held saw in a barn once and touched the saw frame on a stanchion accidentally and it threw me and the saw to the ground in a flash. Even 110 volts can kill.
==
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Roy wrote:

didn't actually zap me directly, but I still damn near wet myself. I was about 15 (Child labor laws? Huh?) and nailing baseboard in a dishwasher cubbyhole. Swung the hammer back, and saw a flash of light and heard a big ZAP. Dumbshit electrician had heated the kitchen strings w/o capping the end of the romex that would feed the dishwasher. Had a few choice words for him, even at that young age. Figured out which breaker killed kitchen, pulled it, and then had to saw the cable off my hammer where it had neatly arc-welded itself. Good thing it was a glass handle, I guess.
--
aem sends...

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