hot water recirculating device

I saw this hot water recirculating device at costco. It reduces (eliminates) the time for hot water to travel to distance faucets by circulating the hot water.
http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/showdetl.cfm?&DID &User_ID98816&st(15&st2464713&st3=-68641557&Product_ID1&CATID=1
It looks like the water sitting in hot water pipe is being pump into the cold water pipe, which eventually loops back into the hot water heater.
Has anyone installed this, and does it work well? Does it increase the heating bill significantly?
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http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/showdetl.cfm?&DID &User_ID98816&st(15&st2464713&st3=-68641557&Product_ID1&CATID=1
circulation pump. The plumbing was installed as a loop going to each location in series and then back to the water heater where it goes back into the water heater. It works wonderfully, taking only a second or two for hot water at all locations. We have a wall switch on the pump, and it is normally off unless someone is going to wash dishes, take a shower, etc (off when not using hot water).
I highly recommend this system, but am not sure it can be installed in a pre-existing plumbing system since there is no loop.
Bob-tx
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Seems an extra expense for no gain. You are paying to dump cold water back into the heater to be reheated. That has to cost more than the same water put down the drain. Then having to turn on the pump and wait comes to the same thing as just turning ont the water and waiting for it to get hot.
Leavign the pump on would increase the cost as you would be constantly reheating the same water.
Harry K
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news:9d302c20-3ef1-48b4-93e3-

You think it would cost less to buy new water and heat it from near freezing than to re-heat room temp water? Somehow, I can't agree.
Bob
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Bob F wrote:

The two are not easily comparable. With one you are spending energy only when you initially use hot water. With the other you are constantly spending energy. Factors involved in making the comparison include: incoming water temperature, size and length of water lines, how well insulated they are and whether they are in conditioned or unconditioned space, how hot you want the water before you start using it, etc.
Also, if you don't have a separate return loop, your cold water in the house will always be warm (or hot) unless you run it for a while before use (like you used to do for hot water).
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wrote in message

You didn't read the post being sdiscussed here, did you?

Again, you didn't read the post.

Bob
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No...
Nick
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On Nov 29, 2:22 pm, snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

??? just that. No defense?
Bob does have a point as far as the "turn the pump on only when hot water is wanted". Probably pretty much a wash as to cost.
If the reciculator runs full time, then you are paying to heat by whatever amount all the space the pipe runs through 24/7. Yes, even if the pipes are insulated there is a loss.
Harry K
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wrote:

except a good portion of that heat goes into the house in most cases, so isn't a loss per se. if you live in a place that is undergoing a drought, the savings in water could be offset by the cost of the energy.
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wrote:

Soem what of a point if you are talking a house on slab construction. If it has a basement, most plumbing will be in the basement. Mine certainly is. The only piping in the heated living area is the risers from the basement straight up to the fixtures. Even there they are inside the walls in most cases.
Harry K
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system has a time that you can set so that the pump only runs when you need it. You can set the timer in 1/2 hour increments. However, I have found that the cold water is indeed warm when you use it, but it is no big deal. The big benefit I see is that if you are on a septic system, it will reduce the amount of water you run to get the hot water. My farthest faucet is about 100 feet from the water heater and running the water to get the hot without it was significant. It is also a great convenience to not have to wait.

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With any decent functioning sepic system, I don't see this as an issue. Putting a bit more clean water into it doesn't affect it's longevity or functioning.
My farthest faucet is about

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the new septic rules that are being adopted in Ohio, the experts from The Ohio State University, stated emphatically that to prolong the life expectancy of a leach feild, the least water you put into the system will prolong its lifespan. .
Larry

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Are you sure they were talking specifically about additonal small amounts of CLEAN fresh water? Or were they talking about amounts of WASTE water in general? The latter I can see. But I don't see a process by which sending some additonal water into the leach field from running some additonal tap water is going to cause a shortened lifespan.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Yes, clean water, too. Simply, the less water you put through the system, the more time the waste spends breaking down in the septic tank.
Once broken down, insoluble materials are left in the septic tank (either sinking to the bottom, or floating to the top) and only water with soluble materials or very small particles makes it to the leach field where it can actually leach deep into the soil. Eventually those insoluble materials are pumped out of the tank.
Too high a flow rate, and the undecomposed waste gets flushed into the leach field, where it will also decompose. But now you can't get rid of the insoluble stuff, and it will eventually plug up the leach field.
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dilutes the good bacteria in the leach field, thus making it more susceptible to clogging and failure. They said that this is why on the new systems there are diverter boxes on leach fields so water can be diverted to one or the other every other year or so to give the leach field time to recover.

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That's an interesting theory, but it isn't supported by facts. The bacterial action you are interested in occurs in the tank, not the leach field. Older single tank systems use anerobic (no oxygen) bacteria to break down the solids, newer multi tank systems use anerobic and aerobic (oxygenated) bacteria.
As long as you aren't stressing your system by pushing more water through it in a given period of time than it's designed to handle, there shouldn't be any problem.
Where people get into trouble is overloading their system (guests, large amount of washing, using large amounts of antibacterial cleaners, etc), that either kill the bacteria in the tank or forces the effluent out into the field before it's had a chance to settle. That plugs up the field sooner than it should.

Eventually all leach fields fail - they are nothing more than a filter. Double fields are nice if the lot size permits, but resting works the opposite way you described. It allows the bacterial mat that builds up in the field over time to die off and break down so that when the field is used again, the water can perc through the soil. I haven't seen what the recommended time is, but a year strikes me as too short for the mat to break down. Usually you see people run with the first field until it plugs up (which should be 10-20+ years) then switch over to the other field.
-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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I added a loop to my hot water supply line, but didn't need a pump since my bathroom is on the second floor, and gravity does all the work; I did put in a check valve to prevent backflow into the return line.
You save a lot on water and time, but you spend a little more on whatever you use to heat your hot water. I don't lose that much, since I live where we have winters, and the return line functions somewhat like an extra radiator. My loss is during the few months in summer when we have the air conditioning on, but the extra heat isn't worth whatever it would take to shut it off for three months.
peter wrote:

http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/showdetl.cfm?&DID &User_ID98816&st(15&st2464713&st3=-68641557&Product_ID1&CATID=1
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Except of course it dumps the sitting water into the cold line *right at the faucet*, and I see nothing that would ever make this water "loop back" to the water heater. So unless you draw it immediately (eg, you're drawing a cold+hot mix) it'll just sit there until someone draws cold water, in which case they'll be getting this water which was heated cooled.
I don't think it's a great idea to be drinking water that's been through the water heater, especially if you've got your water heater adjusted down to non-scald temperatures.
Now, a loop that goes all the way back to the water heater, different matter.
Am I the only one who's worried about this? I have seen such things discussed many times but nobody has flagged this as a concern.
Chip C Toronto
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