Hot Dog Saw Tested on Finger

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Sigh. So, since there were a number of different manufacturers' saws, they all paid? Whoever paid the most won top honors? And they did that for however many magazines? Are there any other nefarious woodworking conspiracies you'd care to share?
By your logic, any magazine that accepted advertising would be barred from reviewing any of that manufacturer's products. That's a good business model. Start a magazine and let me know how it works out.
R
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Isn't that the concept behind Consumer Reports?
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On 8/13/2010 11:56 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yes, and then people just flat assed accuse them of taking payoffs also when they don't agree with the unbiased assessment of an item.
steve
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Steve Barker
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You're *wrong*. It's a good saw, just not worth the >2X price of an equivalent. They're selling far better than the similarly priced "New" Delta Unisaw, which is also a fine saw but way out of line.
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From what I understand the SawStop also has a very good dust collection system, and has other well thought out features. I've never had my hands on one, but in general I've found Fine Woodworking reviews to be reliable, and they liked it.
I'd have to check out the saw to see if the other features would make double the price more agreeable. Since a table saw is such a major shop investment an extra thousand or so isn't all that much. Think of what people spend on cars and toys. They'll blow far more than an extra thousand and not think twice.
R
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wrote:

I've looked them over (several times) at WoodCraft, and such. No doubt, it's a fine saw. It was over twice the price of my Unisaw (two wings + Biesemeyer), last year. No, it wasn't worth that much more.

It was more like $2000 more than my Unisaw. You can rationalize your way into the poor house that way.
Don't get me wrong, I could have found a way to find the extra $1800-$2000, if I *had* to, but I didn't. The Unisaw is a good saw, and if I didn't get the deal on the Unisaw I would have bought a Grizz for a couple of hundred less still.
BTW, our vehicles are a 2000 Sable and a 2001 Ranger. ;-)
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If I were shopping for a new saw, my wife would insist I buy the Saw Stop. I wouldn't fight it too hard.
But I just struggle along with my 15 year old Unisaw.
-- Doug
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wrote:

Yes, that's a choice. I made the opposite choice. If I had to pay $3,500 for a saw, I probably wouldn't own one.

My Unisaw that's one tenth that age works very well too. It works a lot better than the SawStop I wouldn't have. ;-)
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On 8/11/2010 2:39 PM, Steve Barker wrote:

Every carpenter I've ever met on a construction site will tie back the blade guard on a power circular saw. They have to set it upside down after using it. I've seen a dumbass put one down and it took off across the room because he forgot the guard was tied back.
TDD
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Lee Valley has replaced saws in every store and shop with Saw Stop. Some cabinet shops have done the same, as have some schools. If you think there is a lot of downtime to replace a cartridge, check the downtime after a serious accident.
Take a peek here. I was shocked at the number of accidents. Give the average age, I'd say these were people with experience too. http://tablesawaccidents.com / In 2003 the Consumer Product Safety Commission estimated that "93,880 saw-related injuries were treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms". Of these 52,000 (55%) involved stationary saws (table saw 38,000 (73%), miter saw 7,640 (15%), band saw 4060 (8%), and radial arm saw 2,300 (4%). (Data summarized from: Injuries Associated with Stationary Power Saws, May 2003, Propit Adler, Directorate for Epidemiology, Division of Hazard Analysis, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission)
The average age of injured party was 51 years old. The average size of the work piece was 2 ft long x 6 in wide by 1 inch depth. The vast majority of accidents occur while ripping. There does not seem to be a correlation on the type of blade being used at the time the accident occurred.
Oh, don't forget our friends, the lawyers http://www.cushinglaw.net/Table-Saw-Injuries/table-saw-injuries.html Every 9 minutes a person in the United States is injured using a table saw. Ten people everyday suffer amputations. The impact of the injury begins immediately and last forever.
Nice photos for the family album too http://www.doctormahoney.com/photo_gallery/gallery/table_saw.htm
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The article said:
"The average age of injured party was 51 years old."
Which appears to have made you assume:
"Given the average age, I'd say these were people with experience too."
I'd say that that is an assumption that cannot be made. Of course, it also has to be based on your definition of "experience". If someone uses a table saw *once*, do they have "experience"? Technically, by definition, yes. However, in terms of this discussion, no.
I don't think that the average age can be that easily associated with "experience".
They give stats about age and they give stats about board size but they don't give stats about professionals vs. experienced amateurs vs. weekend warriors.
I'm above the given average age and I use a table saw for DIY projects. I'd put myself somewhere between "experienced amateur" and "weekend warrior".
If I was the next one to get hurt I would raise the average age slightly. However, as far as experience, I'm sure that I have less hours on the TS than many 20-something contractors do - those that rip hundreds of board-feet a week.
My only point is that I don't think you can conclude that the average age of 51 means that those with experience are the ones being injured. It *may* actually be true, but I don't think that the limited information given justifies that conclusion..
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Re read what I said. "I'd say" is an opinion. My opinion is based on the people that I know that use table saws both a professional and as hobby woodworkers and builders. All the older people that I know happen to have many more years of exposure and use of most power tools than those younger. I don't keep records though.

Fine, that is your opinion.

OK, you expressed your opinion, I've expressed mine. Unless someone comes up with actual statistics, that is all either of them is. But do take a look at the guys in most skilled manufacturing jobs today and see if you might change your opinion. Stop by a Woodcraft or Rockler store and look at the customers. Talk to the guys that post on rec.woodworking.
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On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green lumber through it.
--
Steve Barker
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Remember, read first, then post.
"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system."
R
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On 8/11/2010 11:31 AM, RicodJour wrote:

i don't think the sales propaganda was part of the OP. And if you're gonna bypass the safety, then why have it? My point exactly. Worthless.
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Steve Barker
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Oh, please. Make up your mind. You complain about being spoon fed safety, then when you find out that you're not being spoon fed you complain about the spoon being missing.
"Sales propaganda"...you have learned well. If someone agrees with your opinion, they're offering up hard facts, but when the opinion is counter to your own it's sales propaganda. That seems totally fair and unbiased to me.
You are right on one thing - yay! - Red's initial post didn't include sales propaganda because he was just mentioning he saw the SawStop on a TV show. Then you replied with "it's a worthless item" - which is curious as that comment _is_ sales propaganda - negative propaganda apparently to prevent people from buying a SawStop. Why would that be? You've never touched one, right? You didn't even bother to find out about how it works with green wood. Didn't even know the brake could be deactivated. Then you chime in with some BS about down time, lost labor, the expense of the cartridge and ruined blade, etc. You know - blowing smoke.
You do realize that the alternative is someone losing a finger. I'd appreciate your analysis of how much down time and lost labor there'd be if someone loses a finger in the shop. Please also factor in what a lost finger does to an employer's workmens comp premium, and what effect it will have on the workshop's other employees' productivity.
If you can't be bothered to be unbiased and at least try to factor in all of the variables, just call me some names and we'll call it a day.
R
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That was the inventor, and even if you knew that the blade brake were 100% effective, I doubt you'd be any more eager to touch a spinning blade.
R
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wrote:

You got that right!!!
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Red Green wrote:

I guess if you are too stupid to watch what you are doing you can get a hot dog cutter.
--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P2aMVE0_uM

I didn't watch the whole thing. He actually sticks his finger in it? Balls!
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