Caught a show called Time Warp on Discovery last night.
They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.
I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?
nb
Less than the co-pay for a trip to the ER. The blade is ruined and a new cartridge is in the $60 - $70 range IIRC. They are supposed to be pretty foolproof to prevent accidental trips of the mechanism. There are lots of fingers lost every ear, or worse, on table saws. I'd certainly consider a Saw Stop if I was buying a new one.
the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time on the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day would have one.
not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green lumber through it.
... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this
30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a dead man's switch on a lawn mower.. I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and pointy scissors
That was the inventor, and even if you knew that the blade brake were
100% effective, I doubt you'd be any more eager to touch a spinning blade. R
You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if someone uses something more? It doesn't quite work that way.
Do you have life insurance? Homeowner's insurance? Car insurance? Ever use any of them? I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't used them, why do you have them?
Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there have been bitten by a saw. Those are people who use saws every day. No one gets a free pass on accidents. Not amateurs, not pros.
R
Remember, read first, then post.
"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system."
R
I am the first to say that it is impossible to outlaw stupidity with legislation, but the SawStop is simply better technology. The price premium will come down, and so will the cost of used saws without the brake. Everybody wins.
R
I guess if you are too stupid to watch what you are doing you can get a hot dog cutter.
they are well on that way in england.
re: Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there have been bitten by a saw.
Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.
You're missing my point, DD. The price premium is high - now. It'll come down. The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user- selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way of cuts, and is invisible in use. It's better technology.
A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back, would you?
R
I don't know if they are banned by law, but I haven't seen anything but blunt-end scissors in US grade schools in half a century. That's just common sense. As for knives, look at this:
nb
The price will not come down until the patent runs out, in another fifteen years or so.
False choice. I didn't choose to spend the $2000 (more than doubling the price) and haven't needed to get a finger back.
re: "The price premium is high - now. It'll come down."
When? Here's a thread from 2003 in which lot's of people are complaining about the price.
As long as only one company controls the patent, then I don't see why the price would come down.
Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has good people running it. He's been trying to squeeze the market into buying them at his price by trying to get legislation passed. With most inventions there's essentially zero chance that that will happen, but with something that has such great whiz bang demonstrations, and with something that is obviously so much safer, it's probably just a question of time. It's a game of chicken.
I didn't say the price would come down overnight, but it will, and I don't think it will be all that much longer. More money is made selling lots of units at a lower price than a few at an exorbitant price. The margin won't be as great, but the total income will be far more. The most likely scenario is he'll sell the company to a big manufacturer that is willing to take the risk and pay up front to get a jump on the competition.
ROn Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:55:01 -0700, "chaniarts" wrote Re Re: Hot Dog Saw Tested on Finger:
No wonder why the arabs are kicking our ass.
re: "Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has good people running it. "
I'm not so sure. First he tried to get the major manufacturers to purchase his technology and they all showed him the door. That's when he played the safety card and tried to get the government involved.
If the device is mandated across all manufacturers, I doubt the price will come down because they'll all push back and say "We can't do it cheaply. We'll have to re-tool, we'll have to re-train, we'll have to re-lawyer in case the device fails. We'll do it, but the cost will be prohibitive."
I don't recall if it's in the thread I posted the link to or in another, but there was mention of a school district that cancelled it's shop program because the board mandated that they purchase SawStops for their schools. I paraphrase: "If a safety device exists that can protect our kids, we must use it." The schools couldn't afford to buy all new table saws and the program was cancelled out of fear that the "older technology" would make them liable if someone got injured.
A "smart businessman" would have donated a bunch of SawStops to the schools as a means to get them seen in the market and garner a bunch of goodwill. His "good people" should have caught wind of the situation and taken care of it.
If I suffered from "Conspiracy Theory Syndrome" I'd say they didn't want to get involved for fear of the device failing and some kid losing a finger or two. Read on...
A r.w poster supposedly wrote to SawStop and asked if they ever tested the device with a human finger. Here is a snippet from the post and an additional comment from another poster:
*** Begin Included Text ***"I received the following reply from Stephen Gass, President of SawStop (posted (t)here with his permission):
'However, before we first showed the system at the Altanta IWF 2000 Tradeshow, I tested the system with my own finger and just a tiny nick was the result. Of course, I wasn't shoving it into the blade quickly or anything like that, but it did prove the point. We don't do this on a regular basis for two reasons. First, even a small cut on a table saw hurts a lot. Second, no system is perfect and sometime I'm sure it won't go off, just like airbags sometimes fail. I don't want to push my luck. '
(snip)
Another poster's comment:
"This could be one of the reasons (besides the cost of redesign and retooling, and the resultant price increase) why the big manufacturers passed on this system. From a liability standpoint, it's a lot less risky to market a dangerous tool when there is no implied "fail-safe" finger protector. A small percentage of SawStops will fail, just as airbags will. However, the bags are designated a "supplemental restraint" to be worn with seat belts, while the SawStop has no other system to act as a partner. If someone is hurt as Mr. Gass implies may happen, then the entire liability could become the manufacturer's and the potential costs would be very high. I'd guess that SawStop's literature will be phrased very carefully to remove any implied warranty."
*** End Included Text ***Should this system ever be mandated by the government, who would be ultimately responsible should it begin to fail more often once it begins to see wide spread use?
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.