Home Inspection Beyond the Breaker Box and with Power On

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home in spector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), e xposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut an d so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual in spection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it tha t says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented: "Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrici an should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed el ectrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he i gnored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have t he gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so w hat's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

Reply to
honda.lioness
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Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the trades they inspect and acting like an expert. They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to back up just about anything they say.

Reply to
gfretwell

And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

I work live panels all the time...no big deal.

Now if you told me this clown was in your panel and wearing metal jewelry, wearing flammable poly* clothing and or not wearing safety glasses then I'd agree they're an idiot.

Reply to
morty

I work on any electrical equipment as though it was energized because it's good practice. It's very much like the admonition that all guns are loaded. ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Sounds like he did his job. I'd have done it the same way. I was taught by a master electrician how to work in live panels. It is done all the time. I've changed out breakers with power on, etc.

He is not invasive, he is doing his job. He'd be remiss if he did not take the panel cover off. He also made a caution as many homeowners would try to do the fix themselves and could get hurt, thus the comment to get a licensed electrician.

Sounds like he did a good job.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off) , exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

ician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house shou ld be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivi al the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

e ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would hav e the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth th at he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (s o what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

+1

Yes, what he did was normal. As for taking the panel cover off without opening the main breaker, with most of the installed panels out there, it's still possible to touch the energized service connections at the top of the panel when taking the cover off. You could hit it with the metal panel cover if you're not careful or you could stick your finger in later up there if you're totally clueless. I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition to the main cover. That sounds like a good idea. That way once the main is open, everything below, ie the regular breakers are de-energized. But I haven't actually seen one of those myself. Newest panels I've seen is circa 2007 or so era and those just had the typical one piece cover.

If you have the typical one piece cover, if you know what you're doing, there isn't an issue with taking it off without opening the main breaker. And if you don't know what you're doing, relying on opening the main breaker in the panel to prevent you from getting killed isn't sufficient. Open the main breaker, let the top of the panel go back inside the panel instead of removing it carefully straight out, and you could still be dead.

Whoever posted this either hasn't dealt with home inspectors before or used half-assed ones. I've used them on several occasions and they all did what this one did. Taking a look inside the breaker box is important because it's a common place to find dangerous stuff where homeowners or handymen, etc did all kinds of things wrong. Suggesting that a licensed pro, be it electrician, plumber, structural engineer, be called for further evaluation is also typical whenn the inspector spots something wrong. Part of that is CYA in the modern world.

Reply to
trader4

e inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the doo r to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off ), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shu t and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visua l inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

rician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house sho uld be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how triv ial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a license d electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would ha ve the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth t hat he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough ( so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electricia n to evaluate.

LOL. I've thought about that too. With an average house, the home inspection is essentially free to the buyer, because as you say, the inspector usually finds at least a few things that can take $400 of the price of the sale. But if you have a house with few problems, it's an interesting idea to leave a few simple things that you know about, that you can fix yourself later, etc, just so the inspector will find something to make the buyer feel like they did find some things.

The sad ones of course are the ones where the inspector spots some trivial stuff and completely misses obvious major stuff that was readily visible. You see that on the Holmes TV show in Canada.

Reply to
trader4

And, all rapper type teens are packing? Any teen with droopy drawers, hat on sideways, flashing gang hand signs. Got to be packing a nine.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I have pulled panel covers from live panels its no biggie, if done carefully...

and even a main with the main breaker off still has power.........

if the home inspector hadnt pulled the cover what we be your thoughts about that?

Reply to
bob haller

Sorry it wasn't what you expected to see. I've had a lot of panel boxes open, while still hot. The missing strain relief (probably what we fondly called Romex connector) is important. Helps keep the sharp edge of the panel box from wearing through the wire. I had such a situation with the furnace in my trailer. Noticed it after I'd been here for a few years.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

e inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the doo r to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off ), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shu t and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visua l inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

rician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house sho uld be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how triv ial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a license d electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would ha ve the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth t hat he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough ( so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electricia n to evaluate.

+1

How did this strange post wind up as 4 separate threads? I don't seen the original, just other threads started by various folks who responded to it.

Reply to
trader4

I tried the leave easy to find troubles, FAILURE.......

the home inspector created issues to I guess justify his fee.

like a gas leak on a brand new water heater.

I had the control valve assembly replaced, the manufacturer sent one fast and free.

the plumber who installed it said it had no leak and was fine.

Reply to
bob haller

Don't know. usenet sure is strange. I did full quote the OP on my last post, so you can see the text there.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

That's pretty funny. Maybe Home Depot can sell defective washers so we can replace them with good ones after the inspection.

Reply to
dgk

Assuming that this is a for-real post, what the inspector did is normal. That's what he is supposed to do so he can see inside the box to make sure it is code compliant. Whenever I have a new electric service panel installed, that's what the township building inspector does when he does the final inspection on the permit (along with other inspections regarding the grounding, grounding rods, jumpers across the water meter and hot water heater, etc). And, of course, his report is going to contain boilerplate safety language so the OP or anyone else doesn't later say that he said to repair certain items and neglected to say to turn the power off first and use qualified licensed electricians to do the work etc.

Reply to
TomR

Invasive? Knocking holes in sheetrock and ripping off roofing Mike Holmes style is invasive. This guy was doing his job.

Safe practices? Maybe for you. He probably does this on a frequent basis and it's really no big deal. I bet you would have really been up in arms if he had shut off power to the house and you had to reset all those blinking clocks.

Gall? Making judgments is his job. He's not going to do the work and he wouldn't be wise to suggest the buyer or home owner undertake the repair.

He found a problem, but he has basically gone as far as he can. Did you expect him to be expert in every system in the home? Good luck with that.

I think I wish he had inspected the house I bought. Maybe I wouldn't be out $20k in repairs for stuff that an inspector should have caught.

Reply to
Mike

Thank you gfre, ashton, tra, bob, dgk and the many others who responded. Th is is a real-life situation. I have since found the phrase "Missing strain relief at panel,. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and c orrections as needed" being used in inspection reports from Florida to Cali fornia. Even the punctuation typo is present. The software must be the same for punching out these reports.

My house was built in late 1994. The panel has a 1995 City inspection stick er on it. I doubt the young single woman who owned the house before me was capable of any modifications to anything. A licensed inspector evaluated e tc. my house prior to my purchasing it in 2003. No such deficiency like the above was stated. I do not think the 2003 inspector took off the panel cov er. I never went behind the panel cover.

I suppose standards in home inspection have changed.

Of course a person can work with an electrically hot wires present and not always be shocked or electrocuted. But this is about best practices and min imizing the chances of damage to life and property. I am navy nuclear train ed and have zero patience for those who calculate their odds of an accident using lines like "I have never been electrocuted by doing xyz."

Reply to
honda.lioness

I tried that with a car once, A2 chassis VW GTI 16V, got it all fixed up before I moved to MD and having lived in MD before I knew the safety inspection was miserable - I'd never seen a car pass the 1st time. I knew that the load-sensing rear brake prop valve was frozen up and I actually had the replacement in hand, but I thought that I'd be slick, let the inspector catch it, then do what I was going to do anyway and replace it and everyone's happy - inspector 'cause he found something, and me because I wouldn't have to spend any money that I hadn't already spent, save for a few bucks worth of brake fluid. Well, he *didn't* find the frozen prop valve (a real safety issue) but he did tell me I had to replace my windshield because it was "too sandblasted." GRR!

Only reason I didn't bitch and moan was that the windshield was glued in but leaking, so I kicked it out myself, POR-15'd the lip, then had a glass guy come put a new one in for me. I also popped the rear window out at the same time and did that lip too.

Oddly after I sold that car to a friend some neighborhood kids busted out one of the rear quarter windows, so I ended up replacing that for her as well. Got lots of practice R&Ring glass on that car for some reason.

Weird coincidence - going to a party at her brother's place tonight, probably will see her for the first time in 5+ years.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

This is a real-life situation. I have since found the phrase "Missing strai n relief at panel,. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed" being used in inspection reports from Florida to Ca lifornia. Even the punctuation typo is present. The software must be the sa me for punching out these reports.

cker on it. I doubt the young single woman who owned the house before me w as capable of any modifications to anything. A licensed inspector evaluated etc. my house prior to my purchasing it in 2003. No such deficiency like t he above was stated. I do not think the 2003 inspector took off the panel c over. I never went behind the panel cover.

Inspectors here pulled the panel cover off in the early 90's.

t always be shocked or electrocuted. But this is about best practices and m inimizing the chances of damage to life and property. I am navy nuclear tra ined and have zero patience for those who calculate their odds of an accide nt using lines like "I have never been electrocuted by doing xyz."

Then you should be able to tell us whether there is in fact a missing strain relief at the panel or not. Every inspection I've had done, I made sure to be there so that the inspector can point out things to me, I can ask questions, etc.

And I hope you realize that "hot wires", ie the main service wires, are still live and there to be touched with the typical panel cover off, even if you do turn off the main breaker.

Reply to
trader4

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