holes from old mortice lock mean I can't fit a new one....

Hi there
The mortice lock in my wooden door is a 2 lever with a handle attached. I want to put in a 5 lever one. No problem with the actual fitting, however the screw holes are in different places meaning I can't screw in the new on e because there is nothing to screw into.
How can I resolve this?
thanks
Denise
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/27/2014 9:56 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Fill in the old locations with cutouts from the new. Since the holesaw will leave them a little small owing to its kerf you'll need to make some shims to fit them. Wide masking tape around the outer edge and then setting w/ epoxy will leave a solid-enough patch to hold.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:25:45 UTC+1, dpb wrote:

Thanks - but I'm fitting new lock into existing hole. That bit fits just fine, it's the screw holes.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, April 27, 2014 9:56:34 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

tached. I want to put in a 5 lever one. No problem with the actual fitting, however the screw holes are in different places meaning I can't screw in t he new one because there is nothing to screw into. How can I resolve this? thanks Denise
Sawdust mixed with epoxy will set up in a couple of hours using quick-setti ng epoxy. You can also use sawdust mixed with "Elmers Glue, or a similatr white glue. That will take 24 houres to set up. The sawdust/epoxy is the best. Even using quick-setting epoxy, wait 4x their recommended times jus t to ensure it is really set up. The sawdust makes it easier to cut later on, and also helps the mixture to hold its shape while setting up. This i s a good wood-filling idea where you don't care aboutr the appearance too m uch. Of course, aftrer setting up, you sand and paint the final product.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:45:19 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

attached. I want to put in a 5 lever one. No problem with the actual fittin g, however the screw holes are in different places meaning I can't screw in the new one because there is nothing to screw into. How can I resolve this ? thanks Denise

ting epoxy. You can also use sawdust mixed with "Elmers Glue, or a similat r white glue. That will take 24 houres to set up. The sawdust/epoxy is t he best. Even using quick-setting epoxy, wait 4x their recommended times j ust to ensure it is really set up. The sawdust makes it easier to cut lat er on, and also helps the mixture to hold its shape while setting up. This is a good wood-filling idea where you don't care aboutr the appearance too much. Of course, aftrer setting up, you sand and paint the final product.
Many thanks for your reply I will try this. I'm not fussed what it looks li ke, just so long as it is secure.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
| > Fill in the old locations with cutouts from the new. Since the holesaw | > | > will leave them a little small owing to its kerf you'll need to make | > | > some shims to fit them. Wide masking tape around the outer edge and | > | > then setting w/ epoxy will leave a solid-enough patch to hold. | >
| Thanks - but I'm fitting new lock into existing hole. That bit fits just fine, it's the screw holes.
I think dpb was assuming locks the same size, but the idea still holds. If the hole for the old lock extends to where the new lock's faceplate screws go, you need to fill. The only really good way to do that is to glue in a plug, as close as poosible to the size of the existing hole. Then fill around that with Bondo, so that you have a full strength patch. Then re-drill for the new lock or passage set. You might be able to just glue in a small plug for the screws, but there's a good chance that won't work.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/27/2014 10:44 AM, pendle666 wrote: ...

Oh, wrong holes... :)
OK, again you need to fill them.
What works well for the purpose actually that is pretty simple is wooden match sticks w/ an epoxy (actually, even just carpenters yellow glue will work but the epoxy will leave a somewhat harder end result).
Take two or three, whatever you can get into the hole and just drive them in solidly using a small hammer. Fill the hole w/ some epoxy first, of course. Leave a little protrusion for trimming after dries and voila! new screws can be started. It's handy at this point if one has one of the Vix or similar self-centering bits to aid in the alignment to get the holes centered but care w/ an ice pick or similar sharp punch will work well enough if don't have one or want to invest.
--



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Denise:
What you're running up against is common when it comes to locks. Often the screwholes for mounting locks and latches in wooden doors are stripped, and you've got nothing to drive the new screws into.
What I've found works very well to solve these problems is Loctite E-20HP:
'Loctite 29314 - Loctite E-20HP' (http://www.strobelssupply.com/Loctite?product_id 0723)
Loctite E-20HP is an epoxy that comes in a two barrel tube. It takes a special gun to push the epoxy out of that tube, and it flows through a mixing nozzle so that the epoxy coming out of the end of the mixing nozzle is fully mixed. The special applicator gun is Loctite product #98472 and costs about $40 and whomever sells the gun will sell the mixing nozzles for about $2 each.
'Quick Supply of Specialty Adhesives, Chemicals, Coatings, and Lubricants, MALAYSIA: High Performance Adhesive for OEM : Loctite Hysol E - 20HP' (http://tinyurl.com/ledpb68 )
E-20HP is a "toughened" epoxy, which means that it sticks just as well as any other epoxy, but it cures to form a product that's identical to wood in many respects. The cured epoxy can be drilled and will hold a screw just as well as wood will. So, you simply fill the holes you have with E-20HP, allow a day or two for the epoxy to cure, and then drill into the epoxy and drive your screws just like you were drilling and driving screws into wood.
Loctite E-20HP is a DIY'ers Godsend because it allows the DIY'er to repair stripped screw holes in wood and PVC. The cured E-20HP is similar to wood in most respects in that it's about the same hardness and toughness as wood. It can't be stained tho.
--
nestork


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 21:16:11 +0200, nestork

Does it really requre the special gun? I think that is a productivity tool that would make it easy or at least tolerable to be squeezing glue out all day, because it works like a caulking gun and doesn't take too much effort from one's thumbs all day long.
I have the holder/gun. It was in a tool box I found in the trash in an industrial park, wrapped around a container of epoxy, which looks just like the epoxy that is sold to consumers, except that the top of the tube is cut off flat so that it fits in the gun.
Looking at the items in https://www.google.com/#q=loctite+e-20hp it is hard to tell by looking, but it seems maybe like these cotainers don't have caps, in case one uses part but not all of the product in a given session. This is why I save all of my caps (and my aerosol nozzles, too), in case I loose one and need a spare. I'll bet I have caps that fit, but I can't be sure. Do they really come without caps?

They also include mixing nozzles with consumer-grade epoxy, but I never use them. It seems to me that a lot of the product will get left behind in the nozzle, with no way to use it, so I sqeeze out the stuff onto a scrap piece of metal, or more likely glossy cardboard, and mix it up with a wooden kitchen-size match** or when I don't have that, a screwdriver.
It seems to me the mixing nozzle is of even less use unless one is going to use the entire container's worth in one shot, because after it mixes in the nozzle and hardens there, it can't even be removed from the nozzle, so for the rest of the tube, there will be no mixing nozzle to use.

I didn't know they were sold separately, but nevertheless, they just waste epoxy afaic, and certainly are not required.
If I had men who were paid 20 dollars an hour or more doing this, I'd want the most efficient methods used and I wouldn't want to be quibbling about a little glue one way or the other, but when people do this at home, they're usually plenty slow anyhow, and rarely use a whole tube at once.
It IS IMPORTANT to mix the two parts throoughly or it won't set in the parts that aren't well mixed, ever, and it's important to use the same amount of A and B, or it may well never set. If the plunger for the A tube goes in farther than the other, one should push in plunger B some more and even out the plungers, before ending one's dispensing.
Before that, one should let the dispenser sit nose up for a while until all the air in the tubes is at the top, so one won't be squeezing out product in one tube and air in the other. I think that would be a good idea even with the mixing nozzle.

For stripped holes in wood, I usually use wooden kitchen matches, or oxcasionally wooden toopicks, flat or even round ones. (round ones are made from harder wood, but the ends are so thin, they usually need to be broken off.) These wood fillers are always enough to hold the screw in with at least moderate strength and with a mortice lock, I think the force applied by someone trying to break in will be perpendicular to the screw, plus tthere will be no room for the screw to pop out, since that space above the screw will be between the screwhole and either the door or the door frame.*** I've never had an occasion with PVC, but I can imagine when one wants the hole entirely filled and this product sounds very good. But if I'm not going to work with it for several hours at a stretch, I'd need a very good other reason to buy the gun.
***One time someone did kick in my front door, and he did that by a combination of breaking the door itself, and breaking the door frame.
They sell a brass plate, bent like a U with a flat bottom, with holes for the doorknob to reinforce the door at the door knob, and another one to reinforce the door at the deadbolt keyhole. I recommend them.
I also used the longest screws I could find in the door frame to reach the stud beyond the each of the frame. Details of that depend on how that wall was framed.
For all this, I think the door could be kicked open again. I also installed a burglar alarm.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mickey:
Yes, you really do need the special dispenser gun. If you look closely at the E-20HP cartridge, you'll notice that one of the two barrels is larger than the other. The gun comes with two different kinds of plungers; one with both plungers the same diameter and one with one plunger larger than the other. The E-20HP requires that you use the plunger with the 2:1 mixing ratio. If you simply put a stick into each plunger and push out a certain amount of resin and hardener, you have no way of knowing that the volumes are in a 2:1 ratio except by guesstimation. Using the 2:1 plunger in the dispensing gun assures that the product is dispensed in a 2:1 ratio.
The E-20HP cartridge comes with a cap that seals off the end of the resin and hardener barrels simultaneously.
The point you make about some of the product being wasted in the mixing nozzle is valid, but a the amount of resin and hardener wasted is small, and the dispensing gun and mixing nozzle make using this epoxy much easier and neater and therefore worth the 3 to 4 dollars spent on the mixing nozzle and wasted product. 3 to 4 dollars isn't much nowadays. There are restaurants in Winnipeg that charge that much for a coffee, and they expect a tip for the waitress too.
--
nestork


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's sometimes better to make the hole fit the patch instead of trying to make the patch fit the hole.
When possible, I'll drill out a stripped or oversized screw hole with the correct bit for whatever size dowel I think is required. Drill a clean hole, apply glue to the dowel and pound it in. Now you a solid piece of wood to screw into.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/27/2014 10:56 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

with a handle attached. I want to put in a 5 lever one. No problem with the actual fitting, however the screw holes are in different places meaning I can't screw in the new one because there is nothing to screw into.

I'd like to see some pictures, or URL to what we are talking about. What is a 2 lever, and what is a 5 lever? I've been installing locks for 25+ years, and not familiar with these terms. What brands are the new and old locks?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hmm....that sounds really familiar. I wonder if I said the same thing about 45 hours ago.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Why not?

Yep.

I'm glad you're glad. I like making other people happy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.