Hiring a contractor - no insurance?

[IGot2P]

Okay, I need a new roof (tear off and re-shingle) and am getting three bids. Two contractors were recommended by a lumber yard (not a big box store) and the third was mentioned but not recommended so I am down to two no matter what the price. The one that was the most highly recommended works by himself (he is a licensed contractor) and does a lot of work for doctors, other professionals, companies, etc. When I asked him about insurance he said that because he worked alone he does not need to carry workman's comp.

My home is two story and the roof has pitches of 12:12 and 16:12 so obviously it is high and steep. It would seem to me that he should have some kind of insurance so my tush is covered if he falls. OTOH, he is very professional and does a lot of work for the "big boys" so maybe not.

What are your opinions?

Don

[hrhofmann]

What sort of Homeowners insurance do You have?

[Ed Pawlowski]

True, he does not need workman's comp. He should have some other type of coverage to cover his expenses if he injures himself and liability insurance in case he damages your property.

[Evan]

Just ask the guy to sign a "hold harmless" release form in case of injury, as you do not want his "one man band" type operation to cause you and your homeowner's insurance policy any grief... He would be performing the work at his own risk, rather than you depending on his special ninja skills in magically preventing an on-the-job accident...

If he doesn't want to sign a liability release do not hire him unless he is willing to produce a copy of an insurance certificate covering: personal injury (worker's comp), general liability of at least $500k and job completion surety...

~~ Evan

[Steve B]

A contractor with no insurance? A man who claims he can remove and replace your roof working alone? What does your contractor's board say when you call them and ask if what he tells you is true?

My opinion is that you are wandering onto a busy freeway with impaired senses. Chances are something bad will happen.

Steve

[Steve B]

I believe that varies with the State, Ed. And I am only speaking of Nevada, where I was a licensed contractor.

Steve

[IGot2P]

I agree that working alone would be quite a feat and I questions him about it and I also questioned two REAL lumber yards about his work. His answer to how he does it was "12 hrs per day...7 days a week". The REAL lumber yards said that he has been doing it for years and his quality could not be beat. I personally think that the odds of something bad happening are VERY low. I will give State Farm (where my homeowners policy is) a call and see what they say.

Don

[IGot2P]

State Farm....will check with them to see if I am covered.

Don

[RicodJour]

Workman's Comp covers employees. If the guy works by himself and is the owner of the company, he doesn't need WC. At least in NY, but I think it's the same in most states. Here's the NY State WC Board web site's info on the matter:

Right. And proof of that insurance should be supplied.

I have a sneaking suspicion you may have stumbled upon one of the rare ones. If the guy is really one of the old school I_Do_It_All perfectionist guys, maybe nobody can stand working with him for long! ;)

R

[RicodJour]

It would be quicker if the OP just told the One Man Band guy to f*ck off. What you're proposing would have the same effect.

R

[John Grabowski]

*It's true that self-employed individuals working as a sole proprietor do not necessarily have to have workman's comp. However if he is incorporated and is an employee of the corporation he should have workman's comp. Regardless he should have a liability and property damage policy and you can request an insurance certificate as proof.

Tearing off and re-roofing a house is labor intensive. A lot of garbage to get rid of and a lot of materials to be brought up to the roof. I cannot imagine one man doing it alone, but I am not a roofer. I would ask if he plans to hire sub-contractors to do the work. If he does, then the subs should carry workman's comp and should provide you with an insurance certificate upon request.

If he is going to do this job solo, ask him how long it will take.

[trader4]

Having him sign a liability release won't do anything to help you collect if drops a hammer on some kid's head. Or if he lets a ladder fall onto your neighbors property, taking out his house's window or crushing his car. Nor will it stop the neighbor from suing you for the injuries or damages and leaving you to pay it.

[Frank]

As a homeowner who has had only one roof replacement, I want the roofer in and out in one day. I don't want some guy putzing around on my roof for a month. One day I came home from work to see pallets of shingles in my yard and went to work the next day to return to new roof and all cleaned up.

[Steve B]

"John Grabowski" wrote

Depends on the state for working uninsured. Yes, I agree with you that he should have liability insurance for any damage he may do to OP's stuff. AND a certificate of proof should be provided. In my state of licensure, an employer had to request the certificate from the WC Board, and THEY had to mail it to the employer (in this case, the OP), as workmen were not given the certificate by the WC people to give to the end user. This prevented the workmen from falsifying them.

My suspicion is that he is going to use subs, as one man doing that much work is either foolish or impressive. Do the math. How many bundles would it take to roof the house, and how many trips up and down the ladder to schlep all those heavy bundles? How many rolls of underlayment? Any replacement of pieces of 4 x 8 decking? Heavy stuff for one man.

Old Teamster joke: How long will this job take?

"Who cares? You got a problem with that?"

This sounds like either a potential train wreck, or someone not revealing all the facts. It is impressive that he has such glowing referrals, and that is good. But some of the basic important questions, issues, and legalities are being dodged.

Basically, the owner is becoming the owner/contractor, and under law, is responsible for any accident or injury to any workman if they have not done their homework and verified that they have insurance of their own. He is the "contractor." Same insurance issues for someone who comes over for dinner or a pool party.

Steve

[Grampa]

Interesting. No business around here will recommend a particular business or person. It appears to be a liability issue along with getting a bad rapport with other contractors, which were not recommended.

Let's say good Lord forbid something would happen to the contractor, who would complete the job? There are only 2 types of people who would roof alone, fools & idiots. No one plans an accident, that's why they're called accidents.

[Steve B]

"Grampa" wrote

Kudos, Sir.

[RicodJour]

Foolish or impressive, yes. The OP mentioned that this guy's name came up a lot as one of the best. I believe all of these unknown and uncredited sources. ;) Seriously, though. If one guy's name keeps popping up it's because the guy leaves people satisfied without leaving a wake of trouble behind him. The glowing referrals from lumberyards is telling.

As far as the guy's logistics, that is just a matter of asking some questions. Generally roofers avoid having bundles schlepped up ladders and use the supply house's boom truck to deliver the stuff straight to the roof. Power ladders are another possibility. If the guy is a one man band, has been around for a while, and he gets recommended, then he's going to be efficient.

The old saying probably holds - good, fast, cheap, you can get you any two of the three, but you can't get all three. It'd be interesting to know how the guy's pricing stacks up against other roofers in the area.

R

[RicodJour]

I've found that to generally be the case in a number of places. Some places will throw out a name or three, others will just shake their heads no. This is one of the things that interests me about this OMB (one man band) - how does the guy do something that doesn't appear to make sense, but manage to get recommended, make a profit and stay in business? I don't see luck being the major player in that equation.

There are many, many companies where you wouldn't want the next guy in line finishing the show anyway. Most roofing companies are pretty small businesses, a guy and his uncle or somesuch and some hired grunts is not atypical. Which one of these guys would you want to finish your roof...?

If the guy was laid up, another company/friend-roofer would finish the job. It's funny but what some are taking to be a negative - working alone - I take to be a positive in almost everything but speed.

I understand your skepticism, but drawing assumptions from the little info on the guy that the OP provided, and focusing on the negative instead of wanting more information, the OP might end up throwing out the wheat with the chaff. Aren't you curious if the guy uses roof tie- offs or freeballs it? What exactly does he sub out? Does he do _everything_ himself and it will take weeks to do the roof? How big and complicated is the roof? Does he sub out rip off and removal and just do all of the shingling himself? I'm not convinced that it's impossible for one person to work on a roof safely or reshingle an entire house by themselves. It's more of a question of how long it would take, quality and cost.

R

[IGot2P]

The contractor was here this morning and just left....he will not do the job! Mainly because there is no way to get a dumpster or truck close to the home because of all the perennial flower beds and other landscaping. It simply would be too labor intensive for one person. This is quite disappointing as he definitely seemed more qualified and particular than any of the other contractors that have been here.

Other information:

Yes, the liability portion of my homeowners policy with State Farm will cover me. This is not an old home where any new sheeting will be needed as it was built in 1993/1994. Also, according to my calculations it should take approximately 33 squares. And yes, I do know something about roofing as I have helped shingle several homes.

BTW - the average estimate is right at $325 per square for ONLY labor and this is in a VERY rural part of Iowa (normally an inexpensive area).

Thanks for all of the opinions.

Don

[Twayne]

No insurance, no hire!! If hurt, he will go to YOUR insurance! Unless, he self insures, but you said none. Also, one person alone really can't do your roof justice - keep him out of there - his price may sound great but so is the gamble you'll be taking. I'll be he's lying somehow about the "big boys" he's worked for too. Ask for names & phones, then check them against the phone book and call at least two or more of them to check his references.

HTH,

Twayne`