High Efficiency Furnace

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On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:10:21 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

That piece of the discussion was about +25 year old systems. The one I throttled down was probably circa 1950's and back then they didn't have efficiency ratings. The burners put out way more heat than the exchanger could use. My gas bill reduction wasn't a mirage. Wasn't talking about modern stuff. Nor would I tinker with their factory settings.
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wrote:

Settled for the smallest 2 stage I could get (35/50,000 BTU) which has never run more than 8 hours a day. In Ontario.
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wrote:

If it works for you, fine. I'm running a business and don't want to tweak the gas flame every couple of weeks. I'd rather utilize technology and save a lot of money on gas. We have other heaters and boilers too and a January gas bill of $30,000 is about average.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I've bought 2 HE furnaces in the past few years -- a 95% Bryant and a 98% York.
The biggest differences are:
    The Bryant has a variable-speed DC blower motor which is supposedly more efficient than an AC motor. The motor runs continuously 24/7, at least at the lowest speed, to help keep the air at a more even temp.
    The York has a continuously-variable (100 steps) combustion unit instead of the 3-step unit in the Bryant.
Both are VERY quiet, and are largely unnoticeable except in the rare times they go to 100% output. I don't know if there is any real measurable difference in gas usage between them.
    
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This can happen if you setback the temperature at night, and then it goes all out in the morning to get back to the daytime set point.
My Carrier has a setting where I can reduce the maximum fan speed. As the thermostat is prospective, it will have to start earlier in order to be at the set point when it is supposed to be.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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On Friday, October 5, 2012 11:11:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

I have a 3 year old Rheem, two stage, and it's very quiet at both stages. I can't tell the difference between the two, whether upstairs or next to the furnace, unless I'm standing next to the furnace when it goes from low to high. Then there is a slight increase in the combustion noise.
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Our profession is to care about your need of heating in winter and cooling in summer, we deliver our best, so can get most from the High Efficiency F urnace and Central Air Conditioner. Our numerous happy homeowners is key to our success in the field of heating & cooling services. Clean Air offers i ts service in Toronto, Mississauga and all over GTA Areas. Our HVAC (Heatin g Ventilation and Air Conditioning) brands are Lennox and Amana.
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On 1/2/2014 12:13 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

What do you guys charge for a service call to Birmingham, Al. ? ^_^
TDD
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Send me $4200, and in 60 days I'll send you a $4,000 rebate.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Other factors come into play. Last year, at work, we replaced a 1970's boiler with a new one. With the old boiler, the heat would come on and make my office nice and comfy. Then the heat would go off and I'd feel the cold air down my back until it cycled on again. With the new boiler, it circulates lower temperature water for a longer time and I never feel the draft. An outside temperature sensor helps to determine the proper water temperature.
Did I mention the $3000 rebate?
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On 10/3/2012 4:37 PM, Pavel314 wrote:

furnace in a pantry off the kitchen. She wants to replace it with a high efficiency furnace, taking her from 80% efficiency to 95% efficiency,for the fuel savings.

efficiency unit in that space but didn't give a good reason, at least not one that she understood. One complicating factor is that she thiks that there is just one chimney outlet on the roof which is shared by the two adjoining condos but I haven't actually seen the unit as it's hundreds of miles away.

just remove the old unit and put in a new one unless the high efficiency units are somehow larger, hotter or whatever.

While it's true that a high efficiency furnace will lower your gas bill by 10%, I'm not sure it pays in the long term. Here's why:
High efficiency furnaces are more complex than regular furnaces. Since they have more parts, they tend to break more often. About 30 days after your warranty expires, the draft inducer motor/fan assembly will fail. Total cost for that with labor is $500.
A year or two later, a safety vacuum switch will fail as well. With labor, kiss another $150 good bye.
And by the time the furnace is 15 years old, it will likely be torturing you with repair bills...mostly related to the high-efficiency safety devices.
Add up all the repair bills and the the initial higher price of the furnace and you'll find you won't really save any money.
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"> Add up all the repair bills and the the initial higher price of the

That is the same story I was told 26 years ago when I installed a high efficiency furnace in my house. At that time I could have purchased a cheap low efficiency furnace, but I went with a high efficiency one. I have had only one part replaced in the 26 years, that was the exhaust fan, it didn't fail but the metal housing started rusting out. While others have a gas bill of $1,000 to $1500 per year, my bill is about $600.00 per year for heating of a 2000 square foot bungalow, water heating and for cooking. Admittedly, my water heater is also high efficiency, and that keeps the bill down as well. I have saved the cost of the equipment several times over in the past years so don't believe the "old wives tales". My current furnace has a 12 year warranty for parts and labor, it will probably outlive myself. Also many parts such as the exhaust fan can be replaced by most people who read this newsgroup, which would keep costs down when the warranty expires.
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Hey, that sounds like my furnace! I replaced the draft inducer fan, last year.
Other reason, might need two furnaces to keep the existing chimney warm enough to draft.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
While it's true that a high efficiency furnace will lower your gas bill by 10%, I'm not sure it pays in the long term. Here's why:
High efficiency furnaces are more complex than regular furnaces. Since they have more parts, they tend to break more often. About 30 days after your warranty expires, the draft inducer motor/fan assembly will fail. Total cost for that with labor is $500.
A year or two later, a safety vacuum switch will fail as well. With labor, kiss another $150 good bye.
And by the time the furnace is 15 years old, it will likely be torturing you with repair bills...mostly related to the high-efficiency safety devices.
Add up all the repair bills and the the initial higher price of the furnace and you'll find you won't really save any money.
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Yup, when they hit 10 they start falling apart.
Best thing to do is have backup electric heat for when the hi efficiency furnace takes a shit..
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Or have a contract. Mine guarantees service 365 days a year. Customers are guaranteed same-day service if they call before 5 P.M.
Mine covers the furnace, air conditioning, and hot water heater.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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On 10/3/2012 10:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:

Good idea. How much does that cost per year?
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I just renewed it. Let me pull it out.
It covers: - furnace + split a/c unit ($340) - hot water heater ($35) - electronic air filter ($25) - humidifier ($50, includes one pad per year) - packaged a/c on the roof ($189)
But that does not add up. I pay $545 plus sales tax. Either I'm not being charged for the filter and humidifier, or there is a 15% discount for having so many items on the contract.
It includes two tuneups per year (heating in the Fall and a/c in the Spring). Plus a 15% repair discount. Diagnostic fees are half off. Five year warranty on all parts (replaced free) if I keep the contract in effect. No overtime charges. And I earn $50 in reward dollars each year (up to $500) that I can apply towards the purchase of new heating and cooling equipment.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

total on HVAC and hot water equipment - including a new furnace and 2 new water heaters. That's about $267 per year. And I've never waited until the water heater left me with a big puddle or no hot water - The AC has never let me down, and the worst the old furnace did to me was loose a fan motor on the coldest night of the year. Had a replacement motor in within 12 hours.
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On 10/3/2012 9:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:

I've heard stories that people on these types of service contracts get serviced last, because the company knows they are captive customers. Which enables the company to give priority to the non-contract customers, 'cause if they don't get to that service call asap, the competition will.
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As I have pointed out before, this group has become filled with negativity. Here is yet another example.
Only people on the "Priority Service Plan" receive service on weekends and holidays. And the contract states that the first and last service calls of the day are reserved exclusively for us. I seriously doubt that the firm is playing games on their contract customers.
There is nothing wrong with buying a high efficiency furnace, as long as you can properly vent and drain it.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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On 10/4/2012 11:54 AM, Don Wiss wrote:

How so? I've had HVAC guys tell me that. It sounds plausible to me, considering the incredibly lousy customer service provided by companies selling other services on contract plans (such as phone or cable). The common denominator is the captive customer. They don't need to keep those customers happy - they're locked into a contract, after all. As evidenced by their practice of offering special deals to new customers, such deals specifically excluding established customers.
As for high efficiency furnaces, I own one, I'm happy with it, it's nearly a decade old, and I haven't had any issues with it. One of my neighbors got one a couple decades or so ago, when the technology was still pretty new. She had one service call a year after it went it. It's been fine ever since.
To me, this is like the griping about new cars with computer chips and fuel injectors. People think they're less reliable and more prone to failure than the old models, but the statistics bear out otherwise.
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