My garage back access door faces the main wind direction, and depending on the season, wind driven rain or snow piles up there. Over the past 11 yrs, I've heavily painted and caulked the area, and tried to improve the drainage there, but if you look at the pic in the below link (sorry for how long it is), you'll see I still wound up with a few inches of rotted out wood.
The exposed base from the area I removed the rot from is concrete.
What's the best way to infill the open area? Quikcrete? Treated wood? Something else?
Your link is no good so I didn't see what you have. However, I've seen other (many) similar. On my own, I repair with Bondo but anything that will stick well and not wick water would do.
Unfortunately, this is a very common problem. Water leaks down around the sill plate, then wicks up the bottom of the door frame causing rot. The entry door on our garage and the back door of our house both rotted the same way, and now the front door at my in-laws is rotting too. The typical time frame seems to be around 5-7 years, even with proper maintenance.
I used a two step approach to fix ours:
I measured the existing door (hinges, latches, etc.) and ordered a new door frame made of composite materials. The cost was about 5 per door, but the composite frames won't rot the way the finger-jointed wood did. I ordered mine through Lowes.
Before I installed the replacement door frame, I installed a jamsill liner
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in the rough opening. This ensures that any water that does find it's way past the door frame gets directed outside the building where it won't rot the subfloor, joists, or studs.
You could try patching your existing frame with composite lumber, but the repair will be difficult to install and seal up well. Even with a concrete floor, your structure (sole plates, studs, wall coverings) will still be vulnerable to the water that makes it past the door frame.
Better to do it once and do it right!
The only downside to the composite frame is when it comes time to paint. I used a primer made for plastics, then had to apply several coats of paint to cover the white door frame.
I'd suggest one of the vinyl patching mixes, specifically; they're finer texture and feather better for small patches...
for example; others available as well.
My experience w/ the Bondo for the purpose is it isn't nearly as water stable w/ time and it doesn't adhere well.
Tried it on the old barn restoration for some rebuild areas as a cheaper alternative to some of the other wood epoxy products--after 5 yr or so it's almost universally failed where the epoxies haven't.
I'd leave it for the body filler where it's covered w/ paint and not subject to as much water as this application.
For OP, it would be _a_good_thing_ (tm) if could raise that sill plate an inch or two to provide at least a little bit of a lip. Depending on opening and all might not be feasible; then again, just shortening the door an inch or so might be ok for the garage entrance if can't actually raise whole thing...
I'd also suggest even don't raise sill to raise this area slightly and ensure the top is sloped evenly away from rear to front so will drain.
Then, if use PT, be sure to prime end grain and back sides before replacing and do _not_ caulk entirely; leave area for water to exit as it _will_ get in irregardless given that orientation, you just do not want it to then be trapped.
A more involved way would be to put a flashing cap behind the moulding and over the base...
I've had to remove about 8 vertical inches of rotted wood. What about building up the qwikcrete vertically to replace the wood, and then maybe covering the whole area with flashing?
You could do that, yes, if you've got the room to form in place. I'd suggest if you do choose to do so then use a harder mix than just the vinyl patch and build into the form a rounded corner instead just a square box. A piece of a center roll from a reasonably heavy cardboard would be adequate for no more than this or use a piece of inside corner trim to tack the two sides together with. Then you don't have that square corner to chip and will look a little dressier, besides.
I've used it for a long time and never a problem. Consider: it is mostly talc and polyester resin. Talc is virtually non-absorbent, polyester resin was used for many years to lay up fiberglass boats (maybe still, don't know).
Is a filled epoxy better? I'm sure it is. It also takes hours rather than minutes to set up. Then there is the cost - getting to be true of Bondo too :(
It will blot up moisture because it is in a powder form and because the surface of talc is hydrophobic. However, that doesn't mean the moisture is absorbed...most any fine material - even quartz sand - will "blot up" water. That hydrophobic surface goes away when it is encased in something. Like polyester resin.
The other property of talc that makes it useful for hygienic purposes is that the crystalline structure is such that it reduces friction - powdered talc feels greasy - and will consequently reduce chafing.
Theoretically, I suppose. I'll only repeat that my experience using bondo for structural applications has not been good and I so I won't recommend it for OP's purpose, particularly when there's a much better and easier (and cheaper) alternative.
OK - I cleaned out all the rot wood, replaced it with treated deck wood that presumably won't rot. I raised the base of the treated wood about an inch higher than the wood went before.
I used exterior primer on all exposed wood, then I used regular qwikcrete to fill in the existing hole and vertically fill in all open wood space (the base of the treated wood now lies on about a 1 inch buildup of qwikcrete - that should stop much wicking).
The photo shows how things look now.
My question is: what to do next? I'm not going to put in any plain trim and have it rot out again.
Should I encase the whole area using deckwood? Lay on more qwikcrete vertically up to where the base of the wood trim is now and try to make it look ok? Or use some flashing to somehow cover the thing up?
Hmmmm....I can't tell for sure what I'm looking at and the shape of the fill in that is the dark area. What I had in mind with the concrete buildup was to form it out a half-inch or so at least in each direction beyond the dimensions of the brick mould so it became the new base but having the recess such that the fill in to that or a replacement piece would fit in as the existing. Looks to me like you've kinda' rounded over that where you're not going to be able to put in a piece of moulding now?
I still think you have a basically insurmountable problem with that being a well at the sill level -- what does the rest of the area around it look like and where's the overall drainage? I'd still think the real longterm fix would include raising that sill at least a little above the rest of the grade.
I'd like some more explanation and a little more of an overview from now before further more detailed explanations if possible.
It's not a well. During heavy rains with wind there was area below the rot wood that was allowing water to get in accumulate before it could drain, and wick up into the wood. It wasn't apparent until I pulled things apart a few days ago.
No water has ever been able to go over the sill.
Adjacent to the door is a 3x3 ft concrete slab with a low drainage slant which runs into a pit I dug out a long time ago, with a grating over it.
I think this is going to solve it and I don't want to go the route of building up a sill and cutting the door to size and finding out that I'll need a new custom cut door..... etc. The door is standard metal with some kind of foam interior and I doubt there's any easy way of modifying it.
If this doesn't work, I would agree with you that the next step is a raised sill, but I don't want to go there, yet.
Treated wood will still rot, it just takes longer. There are also different ratings for pressure treated lumber. Typical deck lumber has less protection than wood labeled "safe for ground contact". Usually the better ground contact lumber has a series of holes where the chemicals are forced deep into the wood.
Also, pressure treatment usually doesn't penetrate that far into the wood. If you cut the board, the center section is usually untreated wood that would need to be painted with preservatives to minimize rot.
Unfortunately, concrete does not stop moisture. That's why plastic vapor barriers are placed under concrete slabs. Without some kind of barrier between the concrete and wood, you can potentially still get wicking. Granted, the PT lumber will probably last longer.
If you're going to continue with the patch job, I would pick up some PVC or composite lumber to use for the trim. It's basically plastic, so it can't rot. It mills and paints just like wood.
I agree with DPB though, the door is installed incorrectly. The door sill is sitting below the level of the walkway outside. You may be able seal it off temporarily, but at some point water is going to find it's way under the door sill (there is usually wood under that metal covering on the door sill). It would be smart to either raise the door frame, or lower the sidewalk. I'm betting it would be easier to raise the door frame.
As I mentioned previously, you would be better off to order a new composite door frame and stop messing around with patches that may or may not last. I replaced my door frames in about 2-3 hours each. Remove the door from the hinges, remove any interior trim, cut the exterior caulking with a knife, cut the nails with a reciprocating saw, and pop out the old frame. Then it's a simple job to install the new frame.
Over 11 years, the problem only resulted in about 8 inches of rot on untreated wood, on only one side of the door frame (the other is in good shape), beneath which a small hole used to exist that allowed accumulation of water and wicking.
I've got only 3 hrs of work and $22 spent on this, so far, and I'm just not seeing the need to tear out the old frame. "dpb" thinks I should raise the sill, and there's some water control logic in that, but then you create a trip hazard unless you do a ramp on either side, and you need a new door.
If it turns out that what I've done creates more problems down the line, I'll own up to it by posting the situation.
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