Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?
The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.
The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.
I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.
On Nov 13, 5:35 pm, " firstname.lastname@example.org"
Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.
GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.
The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.
IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to
ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first
five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters
always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later
pays. We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I
Hybrid cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is
related to real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or
simply to the sky-high costs to play.
I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost of
it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built solid.
I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it turned
out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not buying the
"new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years when we got ours.
On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear they cost much more
than a Prius.
50k should be maybe 1/4 through the design lifespan of a car. If it is
still running fine at 200k, and still has the original battery pack,
then the car may be interesting. For those of us who are cheap SOBs
and/or live lower on the food chain, brand new cars are not an option.
(I never understood people who calmly accept ALWAYS having a car
payment. Pay one off, and immediately buy another one. If I can't write
a check for a car, I don't buy it.)
As to Hybrid sales tanking- I'm just going by what the business sections
in the Detroit newspapers say- I have no way to personally verify. I
certainly don't see many on the road here in SW MI.
All could very well be true.
I seriously doubt the battery is going to last until 200k but they are
lasting longer than expected. The battery is covered for 100k and the price
we were quoted for replacement was approx. $3k. I figured it would drop in
price. Right now they (Toyota) isn't sure how long they last, last time I
I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.
I worry about availability. Ever tried to find a new battery for a
5-year-old laptop? In most cases, all you'll find is an UNUSED
battery that was built 5 years ago.
Technology is changing fast. Proprietary battery pack designs are
required to keep margins up.
I tried pricing a prius battery when they first came out. 9 grand:(
Wonder how the taxing authorties will handle road taxes on battery
Some have proposed mandating charging stations at malls stores etc.
if they were free you could do much of your charging at other peoples
Where? The price includes the taxes. It's not like you have a choice. I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. You have forty cents in additional gas
Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.
Power companies are pretty efficient. You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.
On Nov 14, 5:40 pm, " email@example.com"
We also suffer seasonal blends mandated for winter/summer. It gives
the refineries and suppliers another excuse to jack up prices. And
there is additional tax in Chicago city limits on top of the .55. And
we're only getting 85% gas for that, the other 15% is alcohol for the
That assumes full power draw that entire 5-hours; I'd reckon it doesn't
pull close to that for a significant fraction of that time.
So, that part's an overestimate of cost but US nominal voltages are
120/240V so that using 220V is underestimating so it probably about
They are just raw numbers. You'd also have to factor in three battery packs
in that time adding another $9000 or 13 more years and that means two more
battery packs for $6000 or another ten years.
In any case, you know what I was alluding to.
Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow
speeds. Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but
they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension
If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. But I see
people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just
hope they have their wills made out. Even a VW Beetle would be able to push
Just me. I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.
Heart surgery pending?
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