HELP! How catch dust in vaccuum when drilling wall?

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On 04 Mar 2006, John Rumm wrote:

John, I think you're one of the few people in this thread to appreciate that this ultra fine dust is exactly what I, as OP, am having problems with.

From all the suggestions I find that the best way (and it's not great) is where I use a small square of filter-bag material in between the hose and attachment of a domestic vaccuum cleaner.
All the dust gets drawn in including the fine stuff. The really and truly fine stuff passes thru the filter material (as a second square will show) but *hopefully* it gets trapped by the actual dust in the main vaccuum cleaner bag or by walls of the main bag.
What's left topass thru the bag and then thru the vaccuum's exhaust filter isn't worth worrying about. The main issue here may be how fast the main bag gets clogged to the point of being useless.
I guess a Dyson-style vaccuum centrifugal cleaner + HEPA filters would be better at trapping the dust. (Is this correct?) ANd I was asking in another group if an el-cheapo 30 Bush DD2227B bagless Cylinder Bagless from Tesco is any good as I could devote it to this task. See http://snipurl.com/n6h1
"The Bush DD2227B Cylinder Bagless is a 1200W cyclonic cylinder cleaner. High level of filtration. 1.5 litre dust capacity."
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David Peters wrote:

As often seems to be the case when you have people arguing that black is white and vice versa, it usually means they are looking at the problem from different viewpoints (or one of them just likes arguing!)

HEPA filters certainly trap fine dust (probably better than anything else you are likely to find), but they are also expensive if you clog them too fast!
My experience with Dysons is that if you collect fine plaster dust with a DC01 Absolute for example then you can clog its filters quite quickly (in fact you may do better without any filters in it). You get least clogging if you can ensure that you maintain fast airflow through it (i.e. by not momentarily blanking off the suction pipe as you clean - something that is easy to do with a crevice tool etc). Something like the DC14 would be a better bet since has far more suction power and hence will maintain airflow speed better (it also has much bigger filter areas). Given the price however I would be reluctant to buy one of these just for this purpose!

Might be worth a try - you are probably not going to make anything better at the price!
You could build a pre filter for the task... various folks have posted details of building small cyclones in the past, including me[1]. Although my one was not really designed for ultra fine dust collection however, and talcum powder sized stuff will still go through it into the vac. You would need one with a proper conical section and lots of air speed to accelerate the finest particles out of the airflow.
[1] http://www.internode.ltd.uk/cyclone /
--
Cheers,

John.

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On 05 Mar 2006, John Rumm wrote:

Hmm. that's a nice little project. But the drum (a.k.a. dustbin) is large. Maybe it needs to be so large for the centrifugal effect to work.
I'm starting to favour using a pre-filter. The only problem is that the motor seems to feel it is working against a blockage with very little air being drawn up the hose. And that may lead to too much load on the motor itself.
Now I did see a nifty little kit for only 1 for attaching to a domestic vaccuum cleaner which could then be used to clean a PC. It had a vented coupling attachment to limit the vacuum suction ann lower the load on the motor. Something like that might work well. In fact all that's really needed is to cut some air intake holes in the vaccuum cleaner extension or hose or whatever part is most appropriate.
Then maybe the trick is to work out the best filter material. Glass wool would be nice but particles are likely to pass into the vaccuum cleaner and out through its filter and into the exhaust air. But maybe a thick enough was of cotton wool or a section of a vaccuum cleaner filter bag (assuming they are made of a carefully chosen material to llow air flow but trap dust). Oddly enough I found that something as simple and unexpected as a few layers of a J-cloth did a respectable job. Dense fabric like Egyptian cotton or upholstery fabric might also work well enough. It would seem that most of these wouls let the sub-micorn stuff through but in practise they seems to trap quite a lot.
And this method is good for evacuating the drilled hole of debris while drilling so that a faster cut is achieved and it also prevents possible clogging when putting in a wallplug.
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David Peters wrote:

Smaller cyclones (and ones with more taper) will give more air acceleration and hence better fine dust removal. The one I built was more of a chip and sawdust separater - its purpose was to collect all the granulr stuff and stop the vac getting full in five mins. So in its current form would not suit what you want.
To get very effective collection of the finest stuff with a cyclone requires a fair bit of suction and air flow to overcome the resistance of the cyclone.

It is more of a cooling issue it you eliminate too much airflow. Again you need to design the prefilter to trade off collection ability against air resistance.

It does not solve the fine dust clogging the vac problem though does it?

along with the dust. Beware that blow fibre glass shards into the air is going to do you far more serious harm than the dust!

To catch fine stuff with filters you need a large surface area and a fairly dense material. Big dust extractors usualy use pleated canister filters (like lorry / truck air filters), or large felted polyester bags.

Drilling technique can solve those problems usually, see the masonry drilling section here:
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/drillfaq.htm
--
Cheers,

John.

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Why don't you just duct the dust out a nearby window, instead of trying to trap it?
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David Peters wrote:

Most vacuum cleaners design for dry use have a direct cooled motor. Any restriction in the airflow results in less cooling air for the motor and rapid burnout. A partially blocked filter or hose can 86 a motor in 20 minutes.
--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
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So how do you explain what, 17 posts ?
2 I can understand

Works just fine for me, and I have them around when I want them
I bought a dozen dust bubbles for a quid once - I'm buggered if I can remember what happened to them
--
geoff

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Each time I tried to post, OE told me there had been an error.
After 5 (more than desired, but less than 17) attempts I gave up and decided to use google groups instead, at which point I noticed that posted had started to appear.
As well as replying to the groups, I was also CC'ing an email address and as OE isnt my mail client (I only use it for NGs) the SMTP part isnt properly configured, so the error was relating to the CCd email address, but the NG part of the post had succeeded (though it didnt appear in "sent items" as the email bit had failed.

Maybe you used them all, they are very good afterall ...
Immediately after moving (when I needed to do a few jobs) I could find my stash, and ended up buying some form my local B&Q - that was an odd feeling :-)
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No, I've never actually used one
Wasn't it you who came here a few years ago wanting people to try them out ?
(... or is senility gently settling in ?)
--
geoff

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There had. You were using OE.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
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Before we start the "which browser / NG reader" Holy War, I think we should first agree on an Operating System to run the Chosen One in...
Windows XP or Linux ? (or Maybe MacOS X, now that it will be available for x86)
8-)
wrote:

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Which NG reader is obvious - Pluto. There is no choice about the OS. ;-)
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
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Lobster wrote:

And free samples, be fair. Although it could turn out expensive if lots of leftpondians want freebies.
Owain
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Chris,
I've tried quite a few and I'm afraid they really don't work very well, considering the high cost. That is, they sort of work, a bit, most of the time. Far better to get someone to hold a vac nozzle just under the drilling site or - if working alone - to use one of the envelope/bag methods suggested earlier in this thread.
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They are called DustBubbles. We manufacture them here in Hertfordshire (UK), and they are available in B&Q, and soon to be in Focus and Homebase. They were in Lowes and Home Depot for a while (but as a 2-man start-up we didn't have the resources to service the likes of those guys!)
They come in 3 varieties, each one having a different adhesive depending on the application
- For wallpaper and painted walls (gentle adhesive, will not damage surface) - For wood, plaster and untreated surfaces (stronger adhesive, will stick to bare plaster - For Tiles (the adhesive is non-slip to stop the drill bit sliding
They might sound like the are a novelty, but they work so well that we sell a "Contamination Control" kit that has been proven (by the UK Health and Safety Executive) to be sufficient protection when drilling into walls containing asbestos. We even have versions that can be used on metal which are being trialled in the Aerospace and Food preparation industries where swarf contamination is a genuine disaster.
For more details visit www.dustbubble.com
I have some trial packs that contain 2 of each variety listed above.
If anyone wants to try them out for free, email your postal address to snipped-for-privacy@nospam.dustbubble.com (remove the nospam) and I'll post a trial pack to you, and of course would be interested to hear your feedback...
Thanks
Chris

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Really effective dust control devices are expensive, so are not suited for occasional home use. Even a vacuum (or shop vac) will only get the larger particles; some dust will get through even the finest filter.
My suggestion for this project would be to have a long hose and a helper for your vacuum. Remove the bag from the vacuum (to increase suction), set the vacuum outside, run the hose inside, and let the dust fall over the yard where mother nature can take care of it. You could even leave the bag on if you want to minimize the mess in the yard.
David Peters wrote:

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