K & H makes heaters specifically designed for what you want:
Here's the cat version:
Ed Hayes wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Seems to me that the cats have a place already that they are used to??? I hear this all the time when someone (usually my wife) says, 'the poor is going to freeze to death' yes, and without mans intervention all wild things cannot survive. So...why not give them a place to be comfortable in, in between sleeping and eating everything that moves in your general area.
"nevermind"> wrote
You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild cats. They're different.
A domestic cat does that?
Lots of great suggestions. An Idea for "Windproof" door: take two pieces of blanket. Attach first blanket at top, bottom, and right side of opening. Attach second blanket at top, bottom, and left side of opening. might take the cat a little to get used to pushing through but i think it will keep out the drafts. Place the outside open side downwind of the prevailing winds. Should keep out the drafts pretty well i think.
I like Nicks idea of the door opening being lower than the floor. Dig the trough now, before the ground freezes.
For heat, I think the idea of the lightbulb is good... and using the
240W bulb in a 120 fixture is really good. (just don't do it the other way around. ;) Can be put on a timer and only used when it's *really* cold.Windows... plastic taped on either side of the insulation (leaving an air gap for insulation).
Insulation: Is there a particular reason folks are shouting "stay away from fiberglass!"? I understand "bats" , but I think the foil backed "pressed" fiberglass sheets might be good in this application... as might foil backed foamboard. (if my understanding of the radiant properties is correct.)
Ground insulation is a *great* idea. (as anyone who's slept on bare ground can attest... the earth can suck the hear right out of you.)
Of course, the biggest trick is going to be getting the cats to accept this Taj Mahal.... good luck!
Or put the house up on blocks. Cats can climb.
Nick
umm.....yeah, ok....whatever
We already have too many ignorant tourists and transplants here, we don't need any more, but thanx for the offer.
They don't need software there.
(snip)
A cat in the machine room? Shudder. The gray/brown moss I find inside the warehouse machines is bad enough, but a cooling fan full of cat hair?
aem sends...
ameijers posted for all of us... I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.
It ain't so much the fan. It's the heatsink under the fan. Look for "Thermal Event" in the machine log.
Damn Steve you blew it. Invite the cocksucker on down maybe he will be foolish enough to accept. Lord knows hes to big of a pussy to come here. He even pretends to want to find me knowing where im at. LOL what a pussy.
PS to PJ
Fuck off you cocksucker. Anytime you feel frisky im ready. Your place or mine.
"Don" wrote in news:BnIdf.8728$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
snip
The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a domwstic gone wild?
You really know anything about cats?, Yes, They will clean up their food in the dish and go find anything moving and kill it. The best mousers are said to be a well fed cat. I have two that will eat moths and flies, they've learned about toads, but frogs are a delicacy to them.
-> "Don" wrote in
-> news:BnIdf.8728$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
->
-> snip
-> >
-> > You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild
-> > cats. They're different.
->
-> The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a domwstic gone wild?
Feral cats are born of strays and have had no human contact to "domesticate" them. (Until some kind human intervenes and does whatever it takes to "tame" them.)
In my opinion your whole idea about making the feral cats comfortable on your property is a bad idea. They will begin to associate your property as a place to hang out all the time now and pretty soon more cats will start to show up. You will be listening to cats fighting at night and soon smelling cat spray on your outside walls. If you like the sound of birds in the morning or watching other wildlife that will soon dissapear also. Do yourself a favor and start chasing them away. They are outdoor cats and are fully capable of staying warm when the weather is cold.
: wrote: : : -> "Don" wrote in : -> news:BnIdf.8728$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net: : ->
: -> snip : -> >
: -> > You start out talking about domestic cats and then finish up with wild : -> > cats. They're different. : ->
: -> The OP was talking about 'feral' cats, is that not a domwstic gone wild? : : Feral cats are born of strays and have had no human contact : to "domesticate" them. That creates the "first generation" ferals. Often they can still be recovered and can make a decent pet. They're "broke" but still capable of loving and appreciating people if properly treated.
(Until some kind human intervenes and : does whatever it takes to "tame" them.) Second and third generations may or may not be able to be "tamed". By the 4th and succeeding generation they are usually impossible to recover. Once a feral community becomes entrenched, the only way to get rid of them is to catch them and put them to sleep, or, as we do around here, feed them birth control. Since a feral cat has a life span of about 6 to 10 years though, it takes awhile to pare the community down that way. Feral cats can make good mousers on a farm some say, but they will quickly over-run a farm if they entrench. And of course they contain a lot of diseases and are murder on other pets and animals. Entrenched ferals will fight to the death as a rule.
Sad, but true, unfortunately. Support your local SPCA.
That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you are dealing with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone their litters.
Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was the case, then no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people successfully rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets.
The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I have the kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak. Her mother is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where "home" is and comes in when she eats and sleeps. The kittens couldn't be more loving. They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their "birth mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me!
Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia. Remember what happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated? Perhaps it is feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!
Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to respond is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and probably an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm" to put it gently.
: That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you are dealing : with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone their : litters.
Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral community has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well established feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it is still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by their mannerisms and responses to various things, including humans.
: : Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was the case, then : no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people successfully : rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets. Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated; it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if healthy knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It doesn't need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but that's not all it takes.
: : The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I have the : kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak. We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap a few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to adulthood. They came at different times; one was found dying, laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different length legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg complete with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths.
Her mother : is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where "home" is and : comes in when she eats and sleeps. These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for the one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to. Has nothing to do with anything though.
The kittens couldn't be more loving. Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or somehow scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on end. Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an appreciation of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't mean their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies are full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral community, they are still feral. BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray or abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely redeemed as a housecat.
: They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their "birth : mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me! They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is nature's doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral. That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start spraying, copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was spayed several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major Buzzer, the oldest Tom in our house.
We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else that needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go thru a fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth it. We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as kittens, will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and drinking and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for them, they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are well into the generation counts. It's a complete return to nature. Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory problems, live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct, things like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP and all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every cat in your home. It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you know what you're doing to some degree and have support resources at hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with "normal" companion animals in shelters and such. : : Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia. Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters working on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical here.
Remember what : happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated? Perhaps it is : feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu!
No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it. Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in the world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people who, rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found frozen into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94 degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was and is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But no one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and kidney shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU have done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery right to the end? It would have taken at least another three days. That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day at Shelters all over the world. There are a LOT more of them around than people who will make life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How many will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is the two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone else do it now"?
Regards,
Pop
Yes, I know what feral means, and I still totally disagree with you.
All of my cats are rescues, and most of them are from my old neighborhood. And Mama Cat is definitely feral, and her kittens couldn't be more dependent. And then there is Melon, who before neutering attacked me and now is quite loving. NO, she doesn't like to be held, but she too is an inbred feral.
I've rescued many cats given away, and kept many. Currently I have 11.
And I've also rescued many wild animals.
You seem to have some kind of unfounded belief that behavior is passed on genetically. Wild behavior is passed on by imprinting, no matter what "generation".
Your'e a hoot, you really are! Color the world whatever color you want to, it still doesn't make it true. Not gonna bother with you anymore - you're a closed mind without consideration for facts and so not worth further chatting/discussing anything.
Cheers,
Pop
"Betsy" wrote in message news:8M7ef.7$ snipped-for-privacy@news.abs.net... : Yes, I know what feral means, and I still totally disagree with you. : : All of my cats are rescues, and most of them are from my old neighborhood. : And Mama Cat is definitely feral, and her kittens couldn't be more : dependent. And then there is Melon, who before neutering attacked me and : now is quite loving. NO, she doesn't like to be held, but she too is an : inbred feral. : : I've rescued many cats given away, and kept many. Currently I have 11. : : And I've also rescued many wild animals. : : You seem to have some kind of unfounded belief that behavior is passed on : genetically. Wild behavior is passed on by imprinting, no matter what : "generation". : : "Pop" wrote in message : news:FaCdnc0OPPqqYeXenZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@usadatanet.net... : > Woof, I know I should just move on, but the temptation to respond : > is just too strong. I'm sure you're a good person and probably : > an animal lover Betsy, but you're going on some personal : > experiences and anecdotes that aren't necessarily the "norm" to : > put it gently. : >
: > : That's just silly. First, how do you know what generation you : > are dealing : > : with? These cats are wild and difficult to observe, let alone : > their : > : litters. : >
: > Easy. Gestation period and length of time the feral community : > has existed. Beyond two years and you have a well established : > feral community. Beyond observation it's only a guess but it is : > still easy to spot the first and second generation animals by : > their mannerisms and responses to various things, including : > humans. : >
: > : : > : Second, this presumes that behavior is genetic. If this was : > the case, then : > : no wild animal could be successfully domesticated. Yet people : > successfully : > : rescue infant animals of all species and keep them as pets. : > Of course it's genetic! No animal can be truly domesticated; : > it's called nature's way. Any cat, domestic or not, if healthy : > knows about chasing and eating prey, for instance. It doesn't : > need to be taught; it's inherent. Being taught helps, but that's : > not all it takes. : >
: > : : > : The key is catching them young, very young, like at birth. I : > have the : > : kitten of a feral cat sitting in front of me right as I speak. : > We have three feral cats in our home. Two came as week-old : > kittens, the third was a rescue from a restaurant grease trap a : > few winters back. We bottle-fed and raised the kittens to : > adulthood. They came at different times; one was found dying, : > laying in a water puddle, the other one has 4 different length : > legs; lost three them to freezing. Only one "full" leg complete : > with foot toes and claws; other three are varying lengths. : >
: > Her mother : > : is, after 12 years, still afraid of me but she knows where : > "home" is and : > : comes in when she eats and sleeps. : > These are house-cats now; they do not roam. And except for the : > one with the legs problems, the youngest, do not want to. Has : > nothing to do with anything though. : >
: > The kittens couldn't be more loving. : > Same here, when they were kittens. But don't surprise or somehow : > scare any one of them or you may not see them for days on end. : > Many people confuse "love" with "dependence" and an appreciation : > of comfort. Just because you are teaching kittens doesn't mean : > their instincts are stunted, or gone. It means their bellies are : > full enough and they have the comfort they want; they're not : > wanting for very much. But if they're from a feral community, : > they are still feral. : > BTW, you DO undterstand what feral means, right? If not, I : > would advise you to look it up. It doesn't just mean a stray or : > abandoned cat. Feral cats can almost never be completely : > redeemed as a housecat. : >
: > : They were handled from birth, and whereas they don't know their : > "birth : > : mother" is even related to them, they are very bonded to me! : > They probably are, and that's great. But, that bond is nature's : > doing, not yours. If they were feral, they are still feral. : > That's not necessarily bad as long as they don't start spraying, : > copulating, things like that. Our third one, Phoebe, was spayed : > several years ago and still loves to "have a go" at Major Buzzer, : > the oldest Tom in our house. : >
: > We do animal fostering for the local SPCA and anyone else that : > needs it, so we have had lots of kittens around and we go thru a : > fortune in the formula for the kittens, but it's all worth it. : > We also "judge" kittens, to see if they're worth trying to : > save. Some ferals, if you push them too hard, even as kittens, : > will force themselves into live failure, stop eating and drinking : > and wait to die. No matter how much you love or care for them, : > they are not going to imprint on you, especially if they are well : > into the generation counts. It's a complete return to nature. : > Feral cats will have worms, fleas, upper respiratory problems, : > live and kidney problems, and all kinds of things that are : > heartbreaking to see. But that's called nature, instinct, things : > like that. And that doesn't count feline hepatitus, HIV, FIP and : > all the rest of it. The right feral cat could kill off every cat : > in your home. : > It's a very bad idea to mess with feral cats unless you know : > what you're doing to some degree and have support resources at : > hand. There is good reason ferals are not caged/kept with : > "normal" companion animals in shelters and such. : > : : > : Trap neuter and release is the option, NOT euthanasia. : > Then I hope you're donating to lots to lots of Shelters working : > on the feral problems. If not, you're being hypocritical here. : >
: > Remember what : > : happened in the bubonic plague, when cats were eliminated? : > Perhaps it is : > : feral cats that will "save" us from the avian flu! : >
: > No, I don't; wasn't alive then, but I have read about it. : > Remember it's YOU brought up the annihilation of every cat in the : > world, not anyone else. You sound like one of those people who, : > rather than save to euthanize that poor kitten we found frozen : > into the puddle one morning on the street, would have instead : > have let her lay there and suffer? It had a body temp of 94 : > degrees when it got to the Shelter, and lived 24 hours, so we : > took it to assess it and see if it was salvageable. It was and : > is still with us and hopefully will be for a long time. But no : > one else would have taken it; it had gone into liver and kidney : > shutdown and couldn't/wouldn't eat or drink; what would YOU have : > done with it? Let it continue its slow death and misery right : > to the end? It would have taken at least another three days. : > That scenario and ones like it happen over and over every day at : > Shelters all over the world. : > There are a LOT more of them around than people who will make : > life bearable for them. Which group do YOU belong to? How many : > will you go out and help? How many have you helped? Or is the : > two you have enough and you've "done your duty, let someone else : > do it now"? : >
: > Regards, : >
: > Pop : > --- : >
: >
: :
"Betsy" wrote in news:qK3ef.1$ snipped-for-privacy@news.abs.net: snipped Her
Yeah, eats cat food at home but spends the rest of the time killing off the competition.
Because there are no birds left in your neck of the woods. No thanks, I tend to enjoy watching the birds at the feeder.
"nevermind"> wrote
A little, we presently have 6. Amazing what people throw away.
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