HDTV antennas & complaints

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Wrong again Pa Pa. The move from NTSC to ATSC that you have your shorts in a know about, has zippo to do with "interactive services" And that's because last time I checked ATSC, just like NTSC is one way, ie from the transmitter to your antenna. There is no channel in the other direction to support interactive anything.
Offhand I can't think of any compelling ones yet that wil make

And why am I not surprised? LOL
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:45:26 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Point conceded. I haven't kept up with the technology news. I still think interactive services can still be piggybacked in the cable company feeds though. These services will be custom cable company offerings, not broadcast company services. That said only likely popular service may be videogames that involve multiple remote players. I don't play videogames myself or shop online.
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Nobody has related any real life experiences with watching DTV on a regularTV so I will.
I live in a rural area where analog TV reception can at best be classified as awful. Scratchy, staticy, ghosty, fluttery, you name it, it was in the picture. But I put up with it. Until a few years ago when I had had enough and I bought a converter box for my TV. Man! let me tell you. It was like moving the studio into your living room. It was a crystal clear perfect picture the likes of which I had never seen before. Sure it had some problems with pixelation and an occasion freeze, but it was a friggin perfect picture!
So stop complaining about your crappy picture and go out and buy a converter box. Sure they'll be cheaper in a year when the government starts handing out the rebates, but then you'll have missed out on doing the one thing that can improve your picture the most for those months you've waited.
Go to www.antennaweb.org and see if it says you can pick up any DTV stations and then just go for it.
-dickm
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wrote:

my objection is that instead of letting the MARKET decide,government forced the conversion,and thus obsoleted my 2 TVs and VCR,"taking" my property without compensation. They will not give coupons for all three receivers in my home,only one coupon per household.
When TracFone's carriers dropped the old analog cellphone service,TracFone sent me a free GSM phone to replace the analog phone.
I should be getting 3 converters at no cost.
--
Jim Yanik
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I'ts two $40 coupons per household to buy ATSC tuners/converters.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in wrote:

Which doesn't do a lot of good for my VCR.

and those converters will cost MORE than the coupon's worth,thus STILL "taking" from me.
--
Jim Yanik
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in wrote:>> They will not give coupons for all three receivers in my home,only

http://www.tecnec.com/Product.asp?baseItem=TUN%2D5000&cat TV&subcat=&prod Class=TVCONV&mfg=&search=0&off $200 for one converter.

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Jim Yanik
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That vendor appears to be more targeted at pro audio than consumers. There are other vendors selling them today for $75:
http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp5401162&source=EWBBASE&ci_src 588969&ci_sku5401162
And if it's $75 now, like all consumer electronics, how much do you think it will be in 18 months, when you have to buy it? The coupons are not even out yet.
There are a wide number of ATSC to USB tuners for PC out there right now that cost $50.
Granted, you will be out some bucks, but it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. If you buy 3 tuners in 2009 for $150, get $80 back, you're out more like $70.

Depending on the bitching that starts when most people who are gonna be impacted finally wake up, you may get that before it's over. Personally, I don't see this as such a big deal. There was no great social compact to provide NTSC forever. And compared to other govt taking by various means, this seems small potatoes. How about cases where the loss is major and you get squat? For example, if you own a piece of land where you could legally divide and put up 4 houses, the town changes the zoning and now you can only put up one. That's a huge economic loss to the citizen, easily hundreds of thousands of dollars, and there is zippo compensation.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in wrote:

great. send me the $50. Oh,wait!my old but still usable computer doesn't have USB;(W98 1st edition) So send me a copy of W98 SE,too,and I'll upgrade.

If I don't have it to spare,it is.

That's $70 bucks of MY money that I would have spent elsewhere,on MY choice of goods/services,if I have it at all.Maybe I'll have to go without my medicines,or skip a few meals....maybe my limited budget has been allocated already.

No,but it should have been left up to the consumer market,not arbitrarily decided by government.

OH,-that- makes it OK....

That is a little bit different,as the land owner was speculating on FUTURE development. Zoning rules have been subject to change for a long time,affected by growth and other variables.
It's not like he had 4 houses and was made to remove 3 of them,or that the 3 extra houses (already built) could not be used.
It's like you having and using 3 cars,and the gov't comes in and takes away the road to your house(and everyone elses,too),and puts in a bike path[no cars allowed],and says we're giving you a coupon for part of the cost of a bicycle,and that is how you must travel now. Your car has become worthless,unusable.AND you have to take money you would have used elsewhere(if you have it to spare at all),and spend it on a bike.
that is far different than people gradually disposing of their cars on their own choice and switching to bicycles;and then the road being underused,a new bike path put in its place.
I *already have* 3 working NTSC receivers IN USE,the infrastructure supplying them (transmitters,antennas,program sources) is *already in place*,and now the gov't has said I can't use them anymore. That's a taking without compensation.
--
Jim Yanik
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Yes, it is a little bit different. But the govt still changed something that directly negatively impacted the guy, and big time. And speculation has nothing to do with it. Any fair appraisal of the property before the zoning change and immediately after would show a substantial change in property value, regardless of what anyone ever intended to do with the property. And not your $70, but perhaps $200K, without any compensation for the zoning change. Or how about the guy that bought a bar, the govt bans smoking in bars, and now the guy's business is down 20%? Or when they banned alcohol in the 20's? Did the govt offer any compensation in those cases, which are orders of magnitude more financial impact? Did I get any compensation when the govt decided to stop the manufacture of Freon, so I wound up having to convert my classic car to R134?
You're so wrapped up in your little $70 issue, yet obviously have no empathy for those that are impacted with no compensation at all.

They didn't say you can't use them anymore. The VCR still plays tapes. You can still put a tape in the VCR and watch it on your TV's. And they are giving you $80 is compensation. You may not like it. But even under eminent domain, I've yet to see anyone that was happy with what they got.
Also, what about the rights of the broadcasters, ie the guys that own the transmitters and are the other half of the equation. They had a say in the whole move from NTSC to ATSC and are OK with it. Maybe you should call them up and complain.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in wrote:

Except that restaurants and bars have had INCREASES in business since the smoking bans.People LIKE to be able to breathe clean air,not come home reeking of cigarette stench. (usually,bars get exempted from the no smoking law,anyways)

All that is still the "ah,that makes it OK" BS.

Ah,but you did not have to convert;AC servicers are still capable of reclaiming and refilling R-12 systems.And your auto AC was *still working* when the R-12 supply was halted. Now if the gov't took your R-12 out of your AC,that would be a different matter.

TVs are important sources of information,particularly with hurricane and disaster notification and public service info. Loss of that is much more than a "$70 issue".

The PRIMARY reason people buy VCRs is to time-shift TV programs,so they can watch them when *they want*,not just when broadcast.

Broadcasters get to write off equipment costs on tax returns. and they already have a budget for equipment upgrades,and they recover their expenses through ad fees.They can increase those fees if they wish.
--
Jim Yanik
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Jim Yanik wrote:

If it's such a big deal, where were you when they took away channels 70 thru 83 and sold them to the cellular phone companies? And channels 60-69 will be gone after the changeover for "emergency services" use. How about when they did away with party line telephones? How about when they forced you to buy airbags, or seat belts, or even windshield wipers on cars? Things change. Get over it. If you can't afford three converter boxes, then you shouldn't have three televisions either. Television, especially color, is a luxury, at least that's what my parent's told me for years. If you need weather warnings and/or news, use a radio... Oh yeah, I forgot, that's going digital as well. Tough luck.
As for write-offs, you obviously have never been in business. Equipment and expenditures over a certain dollar value must be DEPRECIATED over the expected life of the equipment. Same thing is true of your old junk televisions. If your house burned down tomorrow, do you think your insurance company is going to pay you what you spent to buy those old junkers? Fat chance, even with a full replacement value policy. You'd be paid for like kind and quality.
The change from analog to digital broadcasting was announced over ten years ago, proposed ten before that, and postponed at least twice. The final date was set by an act of Congress, so if you are that opposed to the change, blame your representative and senators, and vote them out!
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wrote:

Which didn't kill the entire use of anyone's TV.

Same thing;didn't kill the complete use of your phone.

They didn't force me to install them on my old car.

What an elitist.

Far too many of you are too willing to accept the gov't taking your stuff without compensation;Sheeples.
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Including you, hypocrite. You said govt changing the zoning of land someone owns so that it goes from accomodating 4 buildable lots to 1, resulting in a change in value of say $200K, is no big deal, because it was based on speculation. That if govt bans smoking in your bar, and you lose 20% of your business, it's no big deal, because according to you, business always increases. Or when govt mandated the phase out of R12 and I had to convert my classic car to freon. You're right, I didn't HAVE to. I could have tried to continue to get R12, but if you know the history of this, you know the cost went through the roof in the 90s, it was in short supply. So, it made more sense to bite the bullet and convert. Either way, buy expensive R12 or convert, the result is the same, $$$ out of my pocket, by a govt action.
You've defended or made excuses for all of the above, which are all cases of govt changing the status quo that result in real economic loss. But when it comes to your own case, where you are at least getting $80 to help pay for ATSC tuners that should cost about $50 each by late next year, and you might be out $70, if you buy 3 of them, well that'a big Fnng deal. What a crybaby.
--

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Heard of SNIP ? You dont have to quote the same 100+ lines to add ONE of your own
BIG SNIP

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On Aug 22, 2:23 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Ineligible if you have cable subscription, even though you also have an OTA antenna. IOW they are not helping out those who use BOTH cable and OTA, only those that use OTA exclusively is my understanding. I use both so I'm SOL.
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wrote:>>

I don't have cable or satellite TV.Just OTA. Sometimes I have both TVs on,on different channels,and tape a third.
If you have cable,what do you need OTA for? I can see satellite dish TV possibly needing OTA for local channels,but not cable. If you have cable,they will handle the DTV problem with their box. Sat.dish is already DTV.
BTW,how will they know you have cable?
FYI,there's going to be a limited quantity of $40 coupons available before their funds run out. Jan 01,2008,there's going to be a big rush to get your request in the queue.
--
Jim Yanik
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Jim Yanik wrote:
SNIP HAPPENS

Cable company customer lists, of course.

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On Aug 23, 3:05 pm, jJim McLaughlin >

But.... What if you have a house in town with cable, and a trailer or cabin in the country with OTA? Same name but 2 completely separate locations.
Red
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Red wrote:

Smile. Bend over. Grab your ankles. Its the government. (BFG)
I figure the fedss could get from the post ofice a listing, with 11 (yes, there are really 11) digit zip codes, of all residental addresses just like they do for the census,cross that with cable company customer lists , delete all cable company customer addresses and mail coupons to the remaning addresses in the USPS residenses list.
But it really ain't my problem, I don't care how they do it, and I won't play "yeah, but" games with you.
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