On 10/11/2012 3:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: ...
Not really; they sit in a canister that holds fuel around the motor for cooling as the tank level falls...it's still full even when it ceases to pick up out of the tank.
You'd have to never let the tank get below between half to three-quarters to have fuel level around it on the PU I just replaced the tank on I noticed...I expect most are about the same.
ore vehicles instead of people getting away with repairing them. Last week = I did something as simple as replacing my spark plugs, or so I thought. It = was impossible to even unplug the cables without a special tool that costs = about $50.00. If people would at least
the manufacturers might get the message. It looks like a jungle under the h= ood of the new cars.
I'd like to know what specifically these folks think all these "fancy features" are that are taking up the space under the HOOD. Somehow I think they probably don't even work on cars or know what is there. In my experience, the vast majority of the tight space conditions under the hood of today's cars comes from:
A - Front wheel drive
B - Eqpt needed to meet EPA clean air reqts, eg charcoal canister for vapor recovery, oil traps for PCV, related hoses, various engine sensors and related wiring, air injection pumps, etc. You could maybe include catalytic converter too, but for the most part that is really after the engine compartment.
C - Need to reduce car dimensions to reduce weight for fuel economy while at the same time trying to maintain as much space in the cabin as possible. Add to that the need to streamline the shape of the front end, hood, etc for aerodynamics, something that no one gave a rat's ass about in 99% of the cars in the 70s.
I don't see much in the way of "fancy features" under the hood. About the only thing I can think of that is relatively new in that regard would be ABS breaking. AC takes up a good bit of space, but that has been around since the
60s and I think few would consider it a "fancy feature". Fancy features in the cabin? Yes. But I just don't see it in the engine compartment.In fact some things have gone the other way. For example, I have a 1980 Mercedes classic car. It uses a grapefruit size vacuum actuator in the engine compartment with a long cable for the cruise control. With today's cars being computer controlled, that whole unit is no longer needed because the computer is already controlling the fuel.
Agree. A friend has a BMW with 140K miles on it and the original plugs. They should be changed by now, but so far no detectable impact on gas mileage or indications of any cylinder misfires. Also, today if even one of those spark plugs doesn't fire, the computer will set a code and turn on the check engine light.
How about rusting out? Remember the good old days when many cars went to the scrapper because the bodies were all rusted out? Today corrosion has been drastically reduced.
That part I'm not so sure about. All the complexity has added more things that can fail. And it has also gotten harder for the DIY guy to do many repairs. But all in all, it's a trade off that I thjnk we all agree is a good thing. I sure wouldn't want say a Dodge from the 1970s compared to what you get today.
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I think he's pretty accurate from observation here...the dealer shops here _are_ pretty much deserted these days around here. There are a couple of independents that are busy it seems, but much of what they do is the routine stuff like brakes, etc., that doesn't require all the diagnostic equipment and/or specialty tools the dealer garage must have for the complex stuff...
I had a front hub start howling on the old LeSabre (approaching 200k; that would have been almost unheard of 30 yr ago) and wasn't able w/ my old ears to isolate where the noise was actually coming from. Just drove in to the shop unannounced and a mechanic came and took a ride and pulled it into a bay when we came back and was done by evening. Even 15 yr ago that would have required an appointment for sometime the next week at best, probably.
In addition, there are multiple empty bays in the shop w/ no mechanics filling the slots that used to be all occupied. That's so for all three manufacturers' shops here--Ford, GM, Chrysler so it's not just a single dealership slipping thing; I think it is reflective that mechanicals are just better than used to be. Now, that gets made up for in some regards by it's a heckuva lot more expensive per repair in general I think... :( --but, overall, I agree I think it's a win.
I know the big farm work trucks are _much_ more reliable and require far less routine maintenance than before. Used to be we'd have to stop and change oil at least once if not twice during harvest because service intervals were so short--now they go thru the entire season on one.
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-snip a bunch that I totally agree with-
-snip some more-
Don't forget those huge honking quad 4-BBls- along with an air supply system that involved cutting a hole in the hood to make room for it.
I changed the plugs on my 95 Taurus at 120K -- did the 2000 Impala at
100k because I had the time and was curious. Neither set looked like it needed changing-- and I noticed nothing different in operation or economy.
Corrosion that shows, anyway. My 11 yr old Impala [new York winters- rarely garaged- 135K miles] has a perfect body -- but the undercarriage has some rot. I'm concerned about the radiator bracket- and my mechanic is eyeing some rot in the rear 1/2. A bracket for the e-brake cable just disintegrated last month.
The 2 things that we used to check to see if odometers had been turned back - wear on the pedals and worn out seats- are perfect. Not a stitch is broken on the leather drivers side bucket. [even the heater still works fine]
It fits my ass perfectly, too-- I'm going to miss this one when it dies- [and to the OP I haven't replaced a fuel pump since my 1966 Dart- I've driven a Taurus, a Dodge Reliant and an Impala and a VW well over 120K each since then]
Jim
Or maybe it adds $1m to their liability premiums, encouraging consumers to mess around with volatile gasoline by providing them ready access.
On 10/12/2012 11:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: ...
That's certainly not the case on GM vehicles--accurate individual readings are the norm and as noted above I've yet to have any of them be a maintenance item after probably 10 years since first vehicle so equipped...
On 10/12/2012 9:34 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote: ...
And the split-barrel Holley w/ the transfer tubes and lead plugs that leaked after every long road trip after being hot for many hours at a time...
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On 10/12/2012 11:56 AM, dpb wrote: ...
Oops, sorry--split-_bowl_ not barrel...
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On 10/11/2012 10:14 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: ...
The '28 Chevy (truck) didn't have a battery from factory--granddad did add starter by the time I was beginning to drive--it's actually what learned on. The gas tank was the seat structure w/ just a pad on top and a rear backrest; I can't think where the battery was actually mounted altho it may have been under the floorboard. I'm still mad at Dad for having sold it while brother and I were off at uni and he's been gone over 10 yr now... :)
The Chevy trucks were under driver's side floorboard (as was the brake master cylinder as well) at least thru early 50s.
The battery on the Chrysler 300M was hidden in front of the right front wheel behind an access panel in the front inner fender. By service manual required removing wheel altho I managed w/o. _NOT_ a good design decision, either. We're on several miles of dirt road and that was the absolute worst "mudding" vehicle I've ever tried to get to/from town with after a rain...it was a great interstate long distance vehicle that I got for the transition period from E TN to W KS and served that purpose well for the time were still making very frequent trips back and forth. But, it couldn't live up to being a farm car even as a second vehicle so is now an Enclave w/ the AWD and much higher road clearance. Unfortunately, it's hardly rained since got it so haven't had much opportunity to really test its mettle... :(
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On vehicles that still use a return system to control fuel pressure a plugged filter will increase the strain on the pump by a factor of up to 5 or more. Deadhead systems cannot build excessive pump pressure.
If a system is designed to run 45 PSI and 100 GPH, and it ends up running 120psi and 20GPH, something is going to give. Usually the pump. (numbers may not be 100% accurate, but the principal is .)
My 1996 Ranger, with 307000km has no wear on the pedal rubbers or floormats, and the seats are like new. If someone had cranked the ODO bact to 37000, it would be believeable - and it is on it's second set of tires, and original rear brakes and exhaust. Original starter and alternator as well.
I don't know where but the shop labor rates between the independents and the dealers around here aren't all that much different...
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The other thing they have is all the specialty tools and service bulletins and any service/warranty work is handled.
While the ordinary is doable most any place, I tried using a couple of the independent shops around and decided it wasn't saving any of any magnitude comparatively. Now, the guy who works weekends under the shade tree might be a little cheaper...
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Hi. Do you have a habit of filling up when fuel tank is near empty? If so the answer is there. I never let tank go below quarter full. Never had a failed fuel pump in the past 20 years.
I've found that, too, but the independent will almost always come in at half the final cost, or less. I've found they're much more willing to eat the problem if they didn't fix it the first time, too. The last dealer I went to did have the decency to tell me to go to an independent for one job. They also replaced a gas tank on a car, using a junk tank (that I bought). A new tank was $1,500, which they thought was highway robbery. They couldn't buy junk parts but they could put in a part I brought in. I'm not down on dealers, at all.
I've found the opposite. I go to the dealer for some stuff but less and less, once I get to know the independent. I gave up on the dealer completely in the city we just moved from. The independent turned out to be really good and far more convenient (across the street from my wife's PPoE).
I had one replaced in a 93 Dakota around 115k miles. You could tell the brushes were intermittent. Then it became weak showing going up hills. I was always under the assumption they go in that general milage frame. Darn gas gauge went before that, but new pump fixed that too.
Greg
Untril a year ago I had a '95 Chrysler LeBaron with fuel injection for the previous 9 years and never had a problem with the fuel pump. (one time after a 6 hour drive with no stop for the last 2 or 3 hours, the pump sounded so loud I was sure it was dying, but it was still working
3 years later, so I guess it was just ringing in my ears from road noise.)Now I have a 2000 Toyota with FI and haven't had trouble.
OTOH- I let it get as low as I dare- and I haven't had any problems either-- Last 20 years were a dodge Reliant, a ford Taurus and a Chevy Impala. [and my wife had a couple Escorts and an old VW in those years--and she's worse than me]
Someone mentioned 'luck' earlier & I tend to agree.
Jim
Never ha d a problem. Won't have a car without it. Very nice feature on a cold morning. I put the seat heater on when I park the car at night so it is comfy in five minutes or so.
Also for many repairs on the cars more advanced systems, the dealer has computer eqpt that reads out and diagnosis more malfunctions that is specific to those cars. The independent shop has the basic eqpt that can read out engine codes for example, but the ones dealers have can read out info down to systems like the AC.
Around here, NJ, there used to be a substantial difference in labor rates that made it advantageous for me to go to a local foreign car place that was good instead of the MB dealer. The place was good, but now it's gotten to the point that their labor rates are so close to the dealer that I'm not sure it's worth it. And while I've had them save me money in the past by using non MB parts, recently a friend took his BMW their and all the parts on the bill were listed by BMW part # and had prices about the same as the dealer. So, I've kind of come to the conclusion that at least with this shop, you might as well take it to the stealership because it's going to be almost the same price and presumably the stealership mechanics see more of the same car, same problems, better computer diagnostics, training, etc. Which could allow them to fix it faster, better, etc.
There are probably other shops here with better rates, but it's always hard to find ones that are good, that you trust, etc. The one mentioned above was so successful they expanded, have plenty of business and adjusted their rates accordingly. I don't know what rates you guys are seeing, but last time I was at BMW here in NJ they are at $150/hr.
45PSI and 100 GPH would be one hell of car. How many HP engine is that? 10,000?
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