Hardening outside phone line for alarm system

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Damn ! For once I don't have a good come back....:)))...good one guy....:)))
RHC

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I'm even laughing to hard to rub it in....flush
Jack

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Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote

I had this image of you climbing up the pole with a butt set to make phone calls a la Green Acres. js
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Perhaps I have misunderstood your answer, but the problem is that the wire comes in from above -- i.e my concern is the "drop" from where the line reaches my house at about 15 ft off the ground and then drops to the level of the basement. My question is about hardening this run by encasing it in conduit.
Remounting the network interface device internally won't help because an exposed wire still runs down the side of the house.
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snipped-for-privacy@consult.pretender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) writes:
]> Depending upon where the inside hydro panel is located, it might be best to ]> dig down about two feet underground and drill through the basement wall, and ]> remount everything inside the house. Although this can cause some ]> inconvenience later when the telco has to visit to repair the local loop ]> from the GWI to the house, it's nothing compared to the "inconvenience" of ]> being broken into and having the monitoring non functional...... ]> ]> R.H.Campbell ]> Home Security Metal Products ]> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada ]> www.homemetal.com ]>
]Perhaps I have misunderstood your answer, but the problem is that the ]wire comes in from above -- i.e my concern is the "drop" from where ]the line reaches my house at about 15 ft off the ground and then drops ]to the level of the basement. My question is about hardening this run ]by encasing it in conduit.
]Remounting the network interface device internally won't help because ]an exposed wire still runs down the side of the house.
Well, you could have the line go into the house right at the strain relief attachment to the house. However, the perp with a long pole tree trimmer could probably still cut it. A cell phone hookup is another possibility, until they come in with a jammer.
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This subject comes up from time to time. The following is culled from earlier posts I made in reply to similar questions.
You can "harden" the line by enclosing it in galvanized, threaded pipe from a point that is difficult to reach if it's an aerial drop or from a cement pad if it's an "underground aerial" (strange, but that's what many telco's call a buried drop). The DIYer (or technician) can install some means of backup such as a cellular or control channel transmitter or even long range radio.
Another possibility (one which is significantly less expensive) is to harden the phone line. This is done either by moving the incoming line and the telco "demarc" (gray box on the side of the house) inside or protecting it with a heavy metal enclosure. C&C Products makes a fairly secure, tampered enclosure called VoiceLok for this purpose. Here's a link (my website) to the VoiceLok.
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com/product_8323.htm
--

Regards,
Robert L Bass
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Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

Ask for an underground line or add a cell phone device added to your security system. As also noted you may be able to have the line enter the home at some point out of reach.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

I have a friend who remodeled and moved the telco demarc inside his garage, leaving the old one sitting outside (unprotected, as you noted). A few months later his phone went out, and he called the telephone company for repair. The telco tech showed up and worked outside for a while, then finally came to the door and asked "how long has your telephone been out of service?". The tech had been testing the circuit up to the old demarc...never thinking that the circuit might have been moved inside.
If it is good enough to fool Bell South, it should be good enough to fool the thieves.
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The phone co raised mine up 15ft for free and made a new high entrance.
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m Ransley wrote:

Fine if the utilities are above ground. Here they are underground.
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My understanding is that, if your alarm system is actually monitored, then cutting the line will cause the alarm co. to react as if the alarm had gone off, so hardening it is pointless. Is there some reason why you don't trust the alarm company to answer these questions?
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Sir, if you are using a conventional telephone line for monitoring, that is NOT the case. Your alarm panel is a passive device, only using the phone line when it needs to send test signals, alarms or other signals such as openings and closings. Cutting the phone line doesn't send anything to the central station because there is no phone line to do so.
Your alarm can be programmed to actually trigger the alarm in the event of loss of dial tone, but this is nothing but a "local" alarm. The central station doesn't know your alarm may not be working until the panel fails to send in its programmed daily or weekly test signal. If you are using some means of wireless backup, then the above doesn't apply, and your CS could well know of a line cut.
So hardening the phone lines CAN be a measure of additional security worth doing depending upon your particular situation...
R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada www.homemetal.com

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Unfortunately, that is not the case with any but a very few high end systems for banks and such. Residential alarms are typically monitored using the switched telephone network. In somple terms, the alarm makes a phone call to the central monitoring station's alarm receiver. If the line is cut no call is made and the alarm company does not know it.
Many years ago it was common to build systems with "line security." A dedicated copper pair was connected from the protected premises, through the telephone company central office to the alarm central station. A voltage was applied to the cable. Two different resistors were wired between the circuit and earth ground. Shorting one resistor meant burglary or holdup. Shorting the other meant fire. A line cut showed as a trouble condition.
In another ancient system a loop of cable was connected from the alarm company, through the C.O. and then through an alarm Mc Cullough (I forget how it was spelled) transmitter at each protected premises. Upon alarm a motorized cam wheel would close and open a switch, creating a series of interruptions in current on the loop. At the alarm company office this was translated into a series of marks or holes in a tape designating the account number. A clerk then looked up the account called the local authorities. If the line was cut an alarm company agent would be dispatched to investigate. The problem is these loops were long and many properties were often connected to each loop. It could take many hours just to find which property has a fault.
Another problem with leased line security is most telco's don't want to provide the dedicated copper pairs any more. They can make far more profitable use of that single pair as part of the dial-up system. Finally, new outside plant lines are gradually switching over to fiber optic which does not support inexpensive line security devices.

No offense, but the primary purpose of this newsgroup is to provide a place where people can share information on alarms. The gentleman's query is on-topic and appropriate.
--

Regards,
Robert L Bass
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]Another problem with leased line security is most telco's don't want to ]provide the dedicated copper pairs any more. They can make far more ]profitable use of that single pair as part of the dial-up system. Finally, ]new outside plant lines are gradually switching over to fiber optic which ]does not support inexpensive line security devices.
Except that now they can actually use that copper pair for far far higher data transmission rates-- eg ADSL modems, etc. Thus one could imagine putting an ADSL type signal on the line to the phone company-- or if the user uses ADSL via the user's ISP-- and monitoring that for disruption.
Most homes have two lines (ie two sets of twisted pair) coming in anyway
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Quite right. As more people start using ADSL and even SDSL, perhaps the alarm industry will begin to take advantage of its capabilities.
--

Regards,
Robert L Bass
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:49:22 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@consult.pretender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) wrote:

Generally threaded iron pipe is used, though normal EMT conduit should be okay. Most monitored systems respond in the phone line is dead, and an external alarm bell can be used as well. The best is a cell/radio backup of course.
Jeff
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That's easy. Disguise your NID by relocating it or burrying it in a dry spot. Now setup a dummy NID with a very obvious phone line wire going to it. Wire that dummy phone line to a zone on your alarm.
Burglar cuts what he thinks is a phone line and the alarm goes off. Cheaper than radio or cellphone backup.
(An alternative is to wire the dummy phone line to 220V so the burglar gets dead if he cuts it. Just make sure it's not a lineman for the phone company.)
snipped-for-privacy@consult.pretender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) wrote in message

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (davefr) writes:
]That's easy. Disguise your NID by relocating it or burrying it in a ]dry spot. Now setup a dummy NID with a very obvious phone line wire ]going to it. Wire that dummy phone line to a zone on your alarm.
As has been said often, in many places phone lines are above ground and run to telephone or hydro poles. Ie, a dummy is very very easy to see-- it does not run up the telephone pole. And the line is outside and possible to get at. The run down the house is hideable-- eg inside the walls (although the telco is going to be loath to do that-- the line is continuous from the pole to inside the house usually. And if an attacker really wants to they could use a tree trimmer with a long pole to just cut the line, even if it is 15 ft above ground.
]Burglar cuts what he thinks is a phone line and the alarm goes off. ]Cheaper than radio or cellphone backup.
Burglar follows line from telephone pole to house and knows which it the right line.
](An alternative is to wire the dummy phone line to 220V so the burglar ]gets dead if he cuts it. Just make sure it's not a lineman for the ]phone company.)
And you get charged with premeditatied murder.
] snipped-for-privacy@consult.pretender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) wrote in message
]> We are installing a centrally monitored, wired alarm system in our ]> house. ]> ]> I noticed that the Network Interface device sits unprotected at waist ]> level on the outside of the house. Even more concerning, the phone ]> line enters and exits the box unprotected. ]> ]> Other than paying for a radio link backup, what is the best way to ]> "harden" the phone line? ]> ]> - Would it make sense to encase it in electrical conduit at least ]> until the wire is out of reach? ]> ]> - If so, What type of conduit and fittings should one use so that it ]> is both sufficiently tamper-proof and weather resistant? ]> ]> - Any other suggestions?
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Put a couple resistors in the circuit. Still 220 VAC, but not enough current to do real damage. Might be a good idea to hook it up to something, say a small lamp or garden soil heater, or whatever. There..it's not to kill the idiot, it's to keep the seedlings comfy. :-)
-John O
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If you are protecting the phone wire you would do better to run it with UF cable so it LOOKS like a power line. Chances are a person cutting a phone wire with power in it would only make some sparks and trip the breaker anyway.
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