Harbor Freight Reviews

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That has the potential to be a disaster, on the magnatude of Y2K. Brought to you by the Democrat majority.
--
Christopher A. Young
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:20:07 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Which BTW was not a disaster after all. But being a stupid cross posting cock sucking mormon, you wouldn't know that.
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The King wrote:

No, it was. Businesses had to lay out millions to inspect, correct, and test literally billions of lines of computer code. The expense was enormous.
That planes didn't fall from the sky or all the world's gophers turn carnivorous and sneak into your bedroom during the night, was a tribute to the IT profession.
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As I remember, the major concern was subtracting dates. For example, if an item was purchased in 1999, and returned to the store in 2000. Lets see..... 99 minus 00.
Were there other things that were going to fail?
--
Christopher A. Young
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On 10/1/2010 8:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Gopher control equipment, apparently
--
I can see November from my front porch

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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yeah, most everything.
But the IT types started working on the problem as much as ten years in advance as many things that happen now culminate many years in the future: mortgages, time deposits, warranties, etc.
Some things that start now, end up a week or two hence: pay periods, for example.
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On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:26:25 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

The nervous types thought that the Social Security Administration would begin printing checks again, for folks that were already dead.
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There was a 106 year-old woman who got a summoned for truancy. ...not exactly Y2K, but the same principle.
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" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

Was that Dimmie's mommy?
--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Oh, little things - like compounding interest on loads, CDs, mortgages, etc
--

Richard Lamb



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On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:26:25 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

As others have said, as of 1990 nearly everything would have failed in 2000. The percentage of programs which do not use dates in any way is small. In 1970, Y2K was not even on the perceptual horizon for most programmers, including me. (I wrote my first program in 1966, full time starting in 1971.) A few businesses which project decades into the future (such as life insurance) were mostly OK because they were dealing with 21st century dates even in 1960.
In many cases, the errors would have been trivial, such as printing 1900 instead of 2000 on a report. Even those errors needed to be corrected, though -- most programmers would not dream of releasing a program into production which printed incorrect dates. If nothing else, the result is that the users lose confidence in the program.
In a pretty good percentage of cases, programs would obviously crash or give incorrect results in very serious situations.
The majority of cases, though, were the ones where analysis was required even to determine what would happen and what fix was needed. The actual fixes in most cases were much simpler than the analysis. Software errors can ramify in complex and unexpected ways, so it was essential to be thorough in the analysis.
So, your car would still have run -- the microcontroller there was not date-dependent. Traffic signals might have worked, but many vary their patterns on weekends -- they might have gotten the day of the week wrong, or the software might have crashed and left all the lights blinking. The Internet would have stayed up, but most web sites would have gone down. And this is before we even start talking about banking, all business systems (including point of sale), etc. Even industrial control systems, airplane control systems, medical device controllers, etc had the potential to fail -- many of these embedded systems would have been OK, but nobody could tell until they were analyzed. Again, Y2K just wasn't in the field of view when much of this was written.
Realize that in general, even a minor error in a computer program can make the entire program fail. It's as though omitting one nail from a rafter might make an entire building collapse. Digital systems are far more sensitive in this respect. Thus even minor date-related errors had to be found and fixed because they had the potential to bring down the entire edifice.
So, people who say "January 1, 2000 wasn't a big deal, why did we spend all that money" are wrong. January 1, 2000 wasn't a big deal *because* we spent all that money. Without the remediation effort, the human world, the first world anyway, would pretty much have come to a stop that day.
Edward
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Correct.
Nonsense. *What* software? Think mechanical timers.

Correct.
Absolute nonsense.

More nonsense. Nearly every bank in the world that didn't already know about the Y2K problem became aware of it no later than the first business day of 1970; that is, the first time they tried to write a 30-year mortgage that terminated after 1999.

Maybe.
Garbage. Aircraft control systems are no more date-aware than car computers are. The only thing the system cares about is how much time has elapsed since power-up. I used to work with that stuff back in the 80s when I worked for the Navy; the systems don't even know what time of day it is, let alone what the date is. They don't care. There's no need to know. Elapsed time is the *only* thing they're concerned with.

Only in the sense that someone is capable of *imagining* ways in which they could fail. The simple fact is that *no* device that was not date-aware had *any* potential at all for failure.
You're doing nothing more than regurgitating some of the less ridiculous scare stories that circulated in the y2k newsgroup in 1998 and 1999. The *more* ridiculous ones included the notion that common kitchen appliances such as microwave ovens and toasters would cease to function after 31 Dec 1999. No, I'm not making that up.

Yes, and in most cases, the analysis consisted of asking "Does this device know what day it is? Do we have to set the date as part of its startup procedure?" If the answer is no -- as it is in the overwhelming majority of cases -- then it won't be afffected.

Only if you write brittle, poorly constructed programs.

Oh, bullshit, it would not have.
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On Oct 3, 12:33pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Dude, I'm not going to take the time to go item by item, but your post was pretty damned close to COMPLETELY wrong.
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[snip]

No, of course not -- because then you'd actually have to put some effort into demonstrating that. Which of course you can't. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 16:33:22 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Banks have to project more than 30 years. For example, 40-year mortgages exist (even if it's a stupid thing to do). That doesn't mean they paid attention. In 1970, saving two bytes several times in each record was a big deal. The mind set was still 80-column cards -- not surprising since banks used a lot of punched card equipment priori to computers. Were they given a clue? Yes. Did they act on it? Seldom -- as is evidenced by the huge amount of work banks had to do for Y2K remediation.

I'm surprised by your belief that software systems are so robust. Even if one particular subsystem is sound, it can be brought down by the subsystems around it. Flight control software may have been sound (AFAIK the stories about an airplane inverting when it crossed the equator are pure urban legend), but airplanes have several computerized systems on board, and not all are so purely involved with avionics.

I never read any such newsgroup and I'm regurgitating nothing. My opinions are based on my own experience, with perhaps a bit of input from IEEE Spectrum -- not exactly the most alarmist publication on the planet.

If the question is answered without analyzing the code, then the answer is usually wrong. Dates are found in code which one would think, based on externals, would not need dates. Or which doesn't actually need dates but has them anyway.

Which describes a frightening amount of production code, and even more so in 1990 than in 2010. I hope ...
Edward
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snipped-for-privacy@paleoNOTTHIS.org.NOTTHIS says...

If the date is not input manually and there is no real time clock in the system, then where does the code get the date?

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The people I know who were working in banking at the time don't seem to think so. Oh, well.

You had actual experience with "most web sites" (your phrase, not mine) that enables you to state with confidence that most of them would have gone down?
Yeah, riiiiiight.

Utter nonsense. If there's no way of putting a date into the system, it has no way of keeping track of the date and hence is unaffected by dates in any way.

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[...]

Not exactly the most informed publication, either, when it comes to IT issues, I'd imagine. Most engineers I've worked with don't have the first clue about computer software, and you obviously are no exception.
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On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:03:38 -0400, Edward Reid

Very well stated.
Bravo!!
Gunner
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wrote:

I suppose I should just stop now and call for references. Your opinion piece, being devoid of said references, is nothing more then that - your opinion.
With all due respect, you do not know what you are talking about. I was there. I was researching and documenting and in some cases fixing Y2K "problems". And it was grossly over-stated and over-hyped.
Yes, there would have been some failures. And some would have been rather dramatic, but "nearly everything would have failed" is simply not true and demonstrates your lack of understanding of what was really going on back then. And your final statement about the human world coming to a stop...pulleeaasseee...
I was there. I researched and documented the Y2K compliance of computer systems, big and small. And yes it was a problem, but no it wasn't anywhere near as big of a problem as the public was led to believe.
And why are we rehashing this now anyhow? It's ancient history, at least until the year 2100 rolls around. Then we are going to go through the same thing all over again LOL.
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