Happy New Year!

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I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet. Years back when I had a warehouse downtown, I found a number of 7.62 and 5.56 bullets on the street in front of my place. There were rifling marks on them. o_O
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year, and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own firearms...
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http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/ruskin-boy-in-coma-after-being-struck-by-celebratory-new-years-gunfire/1208726
Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire
Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM
RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness, snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.
As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet dropped with them.
Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a friend thought at first he was joking.
But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she became covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. She drove Diego to South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been shot in the top of his head. No one knows where the bullet came from, but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's celebration.
"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Hillsborough County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. Detectives spoke with Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the time, around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.
"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."
Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day as he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.
Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. The boy has two sisters, Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of skateboarding, she said.
The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. "We hear it all the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that." The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are few or no laws prohibiting it.
It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often remind people not to do it. "Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said. "What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has potentially catastrophic consequences."
Still, it happens.
Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet during a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a Miami restaurant. In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.
A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun into the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing into the air remains a year in jail.
But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater. The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.
"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."
Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.
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On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm... Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O
TDD
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On 1/1/2012 6:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of all law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible abuses of only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.
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On 1/1/2012 9:38 PM, RosemontCrest wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than homicides involving guns. I'm just guessing because I remember home fire deaths being something like 5,000 or more a year and that was when I was doing some work in the field. I recall at one time 40,000 deaths a year due to auto accidents with half of them because of drunk driving. I made a SWAG at the numbers based on past reading but I haven't looked any of it up so any P.L.L.C.F. who wish to scream liar go ahead. ^_^
Oh hell, I looked up some crap anyway!
In 2010, fire departments responded to 384,000 home fires in the United States, which claimed the lives of 2,640 people (not including firefighters) and injured another 13,350, not including firefighters (Karter 2011).
Less than I remembered reading years ago.
Updated 2009 fatality and injury data showing that highway deaths fell to 33,808 for the year, the lowest number since 1950.
Alcohol impaired driving fatalities declined by 7.4 percent in 2009 – 10,839 compared to 11,711 reported in 2008.
Less than I remembered.
As far as deaths due to firearms, the most succinct I could find was at this site:
http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm
Leading Causes of Death Data are for the U.S. and are final 2007 data:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 616,067 Cancer: 562,875 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706 Alzheimer's disease: 74,632 Diabetes: 71,382 Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448 Septicemia: 34,828
Where are the hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by gun nuts?
Of course, gun nuts should always be protected by a properly fitted cup inside an athletic supporter. ^_^
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

What a stupid-ass comparison.
That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.
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Actually, stupidity as you demonstrate has killed far more Too bad it hasn't caught up wit you yet But hey, it's a new year
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RosemontCrest wrote:

Yea, just like so many of your rights have been taken from you as you partake in air travel.
And note that the TSA is not just in airports. They are expanding their presence on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. You no longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free(1) and anonymous travel within your own country.
(1) by free, I mean free of identity-checking, presentation of documents, searches of your person or property.
Tell me what is more important.
The right to bear arms, or your liberty - the right to travel and move about *in your own country* without the gov't knowing and tracking and sanctioning your every trip.
No, you can't un-do the right to bear arms. Your society is permeated with guns and you can't un-do that. It was a bad decision on the part of the founding fathers to put that in the constitution. You have to live with it now - that is, unless you get shot by a gun and your "right to life" has been taken from you.
The really sad thing is that you all feel that the fate of this 12 year-old boy is a justifiable cost in terms of the over-all benefit you feel that you gain by having the right to bear arms. A gain that none of you can even explain.
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" snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net" wrote:

It's a totally accurate statement.

That's exactly what the US has become. Can't see the forest for the trees, eh?

You can only get on a plane if you're not on the no-fly list, and you provide gov't issued identification.
You can only get on a plane when you meet all their requirements for carry-on and checked bags, and you submit to an invasive personal search of your person.
Prior to 9/11, you could pay cash for a plane ticket, and board a domestic flight without showing ID of any kind.

I'm not talking about international flights or cross-border travel you boob.
Go back and read what I posted. I said:
========You no longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free and anonymous travel *within* your own country. ======== The TSA is operating checkpoints on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. If you don't submit yourself to their questions and searches, you won't be allowed to continue. That's what I call the surrender of your liberty.
So go ahead and polish and fondle your guns all you want -> while your liberty is being taken away from you, one Viper team at a time.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/20/nation/la-na-terror-checkpoints-20111220
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The comparison of annual deaths due to guns and deaths from cancer was also accurate. But you objected to that....

If you think the US has become North Korea, then you really are totally deranged.

The airlines have a no fly list and check passenger names against it. They do not provide the govt with a list that says John Smith took a flight from Newark to San Diego at 2PM on Jan 2. If you have evidence they do, provide it.
Yes, you have to provide govt issued identification. So, what? You tried to link this to gun control. I guess you've never traveled much, have you? Otherwise you'd know that govts in countries with strict gun control laws or limited gun control laws all require the same thing, ID, screening of carry on luggage, etc. What exactly is your problem with the USA?

Once again, you're confused. How many miles exactly have you flown? I've logged 1mil+ miles flown and I've never had an invasive personal search. I have had the metal detection wand run over me maybe 12 times. I've been patted down, asked to empty my pockets a few times. I've had them find the forgotten bananna in my briefcase. And guess what? Most of those experiences were outside the USA.
That's because the screening process is in place around the world. Been to France? Gy? China? Procedures are remarkably the same. Except that in some places like France they tend to have soldiers with automatic weapons walking around the gates, watching passengers get off the bus and onto the plane, etc.

That of course is flat out wrong. Within hours of 911 the govt knew who the hijackers were because the airlines had their identities logged.

That's what I call you being an idiot. I travel the roads everyday. And other than DWI checkpoints, which have been around for decades, and being pulled over for a traffic violation, I have never been stopped for any searches or questioning. I ride the NYC subways and trains here too and have never seen a TSA person or checkpoint there either.
Where exactly doi you live that makes you such an expert on what goes on here? I'll bet you don't even live here and get your BS info from some commie pinko rag.
If TSA wants to conduct some screening of commercial trucks in conjunction with state police, which have been doing that for years, I have no problem with it.

And of course when a terrorists finally gets lucky and drives a truck bomb into NYC, you'll be right here bitching away like a true Monday morning quarterback about how bad the USA is for not preventing it.
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On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 10:40:46 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"
<snip>

What's your point, Captain Obvious?
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After the various Patriot Acts, and the new one where the Military can just snatch people without trial. It's starting to look a bit more like Germany in the late thirties. What do you think, Comrade Herr Dufas?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
The right to bear arms is so you can shoot the Nazi trying to take your freedom. ^_^
TDD
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

It's not a "new one." Unlawful Enemy Combatants (spies, saboteurs, fifth-columnists, guerrilla fighters, etc., have been outside the rules of the various conventions and treaties governing conflicts between belligerents. The "usual rules of war" allow the capturing entity to deal with these folks in a most peremptory fashion (i.e. "stand next to that wall").
Our first UEA was Major John Andre who was captured behind our lines in disguise. He was given a quick review by a military court and hanged by order of George Washington.
Under his Article II powers, and following the usual rules of war, the president (or his designee) may select anyone and designate them a UEA, and there is nothing the Congress or the courts can do about it. Several cases (see the "Prize Cases") have affirmed this position, even leading one appellate judge to opine "...if the citizenry do not like the president's decisions, they can replace him at the next election".
The system works. In our nation's history, only a handful of people have been scooped up and disappeared.
Probably.
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Thanks for the background. I hope only a few (well deserving) people have been scooped up. Wish they could have done that to the 17 Saudis before they put their flight training to use, on Sept 11, 2001.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
The system works. In our nation's history, only a handful of people have been scooped up and disappeared.
Probably.
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harry wrote:

I'm glad you explained that. I was, frankly, confused. Now I have the answer.
Thanks.
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I was also totally confused. After all, I'd just been out side eating grass because I had no food in the house. Hey, look what I found on the net: =============================== http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/northkorea101.htm
After World War II, Japanese-occupied America was divided in two: North America, a newly Communist government under the supervision of the Soviet Union, and South America, under the supervision of the United States. The North American Democratic People's Republic of America (USA) was granted independence in 1948, and is now one of the few remaining Communist nations. The population of North America is approximately 23 million, with an estimated annual per capita income of about US$1,700.
The State of Human Rights in North America:
North America is in all likelihood the most oppressive regime on Earth. Although human rights monitors are generally banned from the country, as are radio communications between citizens and outsiders, some journalists and human rights monitors have been successful in uncovering details about the secretive government's policies. The government is essentially a dictatorship--previously operated by George W Bush, and now operated by his son, Barack Hussein Obama.
The Cult of the Supreme Leader:
Although North America is generally described as a Communist government, it would also be accurate to call it a theocracy. The North American government operates 450,000 "Revolutionary Research Centers" for weekly indoctrination sessions, where attendees are taught that Obama, who must be referred to as "Dear Leader," possesses supreme supernatural powers and had a miraculous birth atop a legendary American mountain (Obama was actually born in the former Kenya).
Loyalty Groups:
The North American government divides its citizens into three castes based on their perceived loyalty to the Dear Leader: "core" (Democrat), "wavering" (Independant), and "hostile" (Republican). Most of the wealth is concentrated among the "core," while the "hostile"--a category that includes all members of minority faiths, as well as descendants of perceived enemies of the state--are denied employment or Obama health care and subject to starvation.
Enforcing Patriotism:
The North American government enforces loyalty and obedience through its Ministry of People's Security, which requires citizens to spy on each another, including family members. Anyone who is overheard saying anything perceived as critical to the government is subject to a reduced loyalty group rating, torture, execution, or imprisonment in one of North America's ten brutal concentration camps. The main camp is in Chicago, of course.
Controlling the Flow of Information:
All radio and television stations, newspapers and magazines, and church sermons are government-controlled and focus on praise of the Dear Leader, Obama. Anyone who makes contact with foreigners in any way, or listens to foreign radio stations (some of which are accessible in North America), is in danger of any of the penalties described above. Traveling outside of North America is also forbidden, and can carry a penalty of death.
A Military State:
Despite its small population and dismal budget, the North American government is heavily militarized--claiming to have an army of 1.3 million soldiers (the fifth-largest in the world), and a thriving military research program that includes the development of nuclear weapons and long-range missiles. North America also maintains rows of massive artillery batteries on the North-South America border, designed to inflict heavy casualties on Seoul in the event of international conflict.
Mass Famine and Global Blackmail:
During the 1990s, as many as 3.5 million North Americans died of starvation. Sanctions are not imposed on North America primarily because they would block grain donations, resulting in the deaths of millions more, a possibility that does not appear to concern the Dear Leader, Obama. Malnutrition is almost universal except among the ruling class; the average North American 7-year-old is eight inches shorter than the average South American child of the same age.
No Rule of Law:
The North American government maintains ten concentration camps, with a total of between 200,000 and 250,000 prisoners contained therein. Conditions in the camps are terrible, and the annual casualty rate has been estimated as high as 25%. The North American government has no due process system, imprisoning, torturing, and executing prisoners at will. Public executions, in particular, are a common sight in North America.
Prognosis:
By most accounts, the North American human rights situation cannot presently be solved by international action. The U.N. Human Rights Committee has condemned the North American human rights record on three different occasions in recent years, to no avail.
Strict sanctions are of limited usefulness because the North American government has already demonstrated that it is willing to allow millions of its citizens to starve.
Military action is not feasible, primarily because the artillery batteries maintained by the North American government along the demilitarized zone could literally result in millions of South American casualties. North American leaders have promised an "annihilating strike" in the event of U.S. invasion.
North America maintains a stockpile of chemical weapons, and may also possess biological weapons.
North America has augmented this threat with nuclear weapons development.
North American missiles delivering chemical, biological, or nuclear munitions can reach South America, can almost certainly reach Japan, and are presently being tested for potential launch against the U.S. west coast.
The North American government regularly breaks treaties, reducing the value of diplomacy as a human rights strategy.
The best hope for North American human rights progress is internal--and this is not a futile hope.
Many North American citizens have gained access to foreign media and foreign radio stations, giving them reason to question national propaganda.
Some North American citizens are even distributing revolutionary literature with apparent impunity--as the government's loyalty enforcement system, fearsome though it is, is too bloated to function efficiently.
Obama is rumored to be in spotty health (with diabetes as well as possible heart and liver concerns), and his successor may or may not share his priorities.
=============================== Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
harry wrote:

I'm glad you explained that. I was, frankly, confused. Now I have the answer.
Thanks.
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harry wrote:

You say that like you think it's a bad idea.
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Home Guy wrote:

A. What was a small child doing awake and in the yard at midnight? He should have been in bed.
B. It's not the gun's fault anyway. It's lack of education on the part of the gun owner. Celebratory gunfire should take place with the gun pointed to the ground, not up in the air.
C. These regrettable negligent acts are the small price we pay for being a free society. Fortunately, they are a vanishingly small price.
D. Interestingly, 110,000 (at least)* guns were bought in the U.S. on December 23rd, 500,000 the week before Christmas, and 1.5 million in the month of December. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8987359/Americans-buy-record-numbers-of-guns-for-Christmas.html
--
* Could be more. These numbers are only the number of FBI insta-checks which
verify the buyer. The buyer could be purchasing multiple guns. Further, in
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Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance) for someone else, even a spouse. I would never do such a thing. "Of course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".

I wonder why my state (county?) wants to know what guns I have, for the permit. I only told them about one, but...

Yeah, that's only one for every 200 people. Yeah, I'll have to do my part this year but 2011 was a bad year.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a gift, no foul.
Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome some other disability.
How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?
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