Hanging a heavy bag

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I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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beam... If you're a real wiz with tools, drill a hole through your ceiling to the joist, then have a pin go through the joist(horizontally) and have your chain/whatever hooking on that... (you'd want some sort of sleeve on the hole through the ceiling to avoid rub damage). I've currently got a 4 inch screw-in that goes through the ceiling and into a joist... not bad, but I've had it come right out(as in rip itself out of the wood) due to jarring...
Good luck, P.
Ps.. I use beam/joist interchangeably, 'cause I know d$ck about carpentry... :P
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:

No way you can do this without strengthening your joists, unless you have a centre beam.
If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick will wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run supports between the joists and lock the entire cealing together. If you can access your attic this won't be very tough. But it will take some wood.
You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel hook through it to run between two joists, brace those joists so three joists are tied together for a good section of the span and then put a circular recessed lighting type of thing into the ceiling and hook through the empty hole. The diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
But I have one down in my basement running through a centre beam and the entire house shakes when I use.
--
Keith Hobman

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Keith Hobman wrote:

Keith,
Do you have any specific protocols for strengthening joists? Are joists tonic or phasic and does that have implications for their training? How should I work my joist strengthening into my overall yearly plan? Should it be periodized and, if so, how?
Lyle
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(Don) wrote:

First you use hot water. Then you use cold water.
I will be here all ze week.
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snipped-for-privacy@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:

2x4 comes to mind. As in the wood.

Phasic of course. Everything has inmplications, but you'll have to buy my book "Strengthening Joists the Eastern bloc Way" to find out how. Available from me for the low price of $149.99 Canadian.

This is the 'Hammer Strength' approach. Different book, same great introductory price.

See above. If interested you can get BOTH books at the one-time low price of $349.99.
Because its you, man. Or anyone else for that matter.
HTH.
--
Keith Hobman

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Keith Hobman wrote:

i'm feeling the love right now. Hot Canadian love.
Lyle
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(Don) wrote:

You can do this outside the drywall - on top of the drywall placing a 2x6 across 2 rafters (using 6" lags into the joists), painting the board then bolting the bracket to the 2x6.

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o.c. - not that it matters in this case though) with a span of 12 feet. With this size joist and this span deflection is acceptable with a point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just hanging it off one point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a 12' span have a load bearing capacity of ~73 lbs. per lineal foot. And these numbers are for acceptable deflection, which is no where near total failure.
Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus room" with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's probably got collar ties to hang off of (if the ceiling is flat) or rafters/trusses (if the ceiling is sloped). If they are indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or trusses (which generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's dealing with substantially smaller lumber. If they are rafters (i.e. 2x8s, 2x10s, 2x12s etc - depending primarily what part of the country the house is located in) then it's just a matter of figuring out what the snow/wind loads are and how they effect the total load capacity.

You do? Why?

There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a bonus room, since by definition, a bonus room IS the attic.

The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not because it isn't braced well enough. Cross bracing multiple joists is not going to significantly reduce vibration transmission.
Michael
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When you kick a heavy bag you are loading the joist with far more than the weight of the bag. What do you suggest would distribute the load to more than one joist if not bracing?
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o.c. - not that it matters in this case though) with a spanof

Yes it is more than the weight of just the bag, but is it enough to cause unacceptable deflection? Is it enough to cause total failure? Depends upon all the parameters but in most all cases I'd say no.

First off what are you trying to accomplish by distributing the load? You have yours mounted to the central beam of your home correct? What's the size of that beam? Lets say it's a 6x10 solid timber beam, so that's the lumber equavalent of (4) 2x10s. The solid timber is going to be stronger than 4 seperate joists ganged together. So when you mention bracing joists together my reply is why? There's maybe some miscommunication about what the bracing is going to do. It will not significantly reduce deflection (bending of the joist). It could however reduce the shear force by spreading it out to other joists. If the bag is hung at one point then your static load is going to be straight down. Hitting or kicking the bag will cause shearing stress (lateral deformation) but since it's hung from a chain that helps reduce some of the shearing force into deflection (bending). Also keep in mind that there already probably is some "bracing" in the form of T&G subfloor (if there's a floor above) and gypsum board (if the ceiling is finished). Also, unsually both ends of the joist will be nailed to a rim joists, which acts as a form of bracing (though it serves other purposes too).
The shaking you experience is vibration caused by deflection (within acceptable limits). I have a steel W6 beam that runs down the center of my house. One end of my joists bares on the exterior wall and the other on the center beam, and then from the beam to the opposite exterior wall are other joists. When I jump up and down on one side of the house and it's felt on the other that doesn't mean that it's not braced properly. The vibration is just being passed through the floor system (and the walls and ceiling to a small extent). The amount of bracing (and other special construction) required to totally eliminate this would be insane (better would be a concrete slab, which is very good in deflection, but piss poor is torsion). Stand on a bridge as a car drives over it, you can feel it (ignore the audible sound and wind). Obviously the bridge is braced very well but yet you can feel a small car drive over it but yet it's still strong enough to support the weight of a bunch of full loaded semis stopped on it during rush hour.
A better avenue to persue would be a vibration isolator (also called isolation mount) that is used to reduce the transmission of vibration and noise to the supporting structure. Or even some form of resilient mounting "that permits surfaces to vibrate normally without transmitting the vibratory motions and associated noise to the supporting structure" (as quoted from "A Visual Dictionary of Architecture", Francis D.K. Ching - p232)
Clear as mud?
Michael
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Nope. Sounds reasonable. I personally don't have a problem with vibration as I only train on the bag when no one is home. I assumed in an upper room it would wreck the drywall. Apparently I assumed RONG.
Won't be the last time. You learn something new everyday.
:^)
--
Keith Hobman

The email address above is a spam sink - no longer monitored
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Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:

Because the loading on a single joist will allow the lateral joist deflection to crack the drywall.

Think about that. If the vibration is at an undesirable level, then the structure isn't stiff enough against the loading.

Actually, it will substantially reduce the vibration transmission, because the part of the structure the bag is acting on will be substantially heavier and and stiffer.

Keith never said that you'd break joists, so this is a red herring. I wouldn't worry about failure of a joist (unless the joist is already cracked, or the fastener compromises the bottom fibers of the joist, which are loaded in tension. The real issue is cracking of sheet rock.

Untrue. Ganging 2x10's produces a structure that is stronger than a solid timber, because cracks and checks in one piece don't propagate into its neighbors. A solid timber will deflect less laterally, but not in the intended load direction.

One reason would be to limit lateral deflection of a joist, which could crack the ceiling. Another reason would be to increase the effective mass of the structure the bag bears upon.

You're thinking simplistically. Bending of the joist in a vertical plane is probably not the issue here. In the lateral direction, ganging joists will substantially reduce deflection.

Shear? Away from the walls, shear is not important. Lateral load is still largely a bending load, as far as a joist is concerned.
A chain may (or may not) reduce the lateral load (depends on dynamics), but that doesn't change the fact that you could crack the ceiling with a strong kick if the bag is hung from a single joist. I'd suggest spanning 3 joists, personally.

Over the long haul, gypsum board will not help with this kind of loading. It will gladly crack to relieve such loading.

That may or may not help. Joists, studs, ring beams, etc. all move somewhat relative to one another, so some motion could occur that cracks sheetrock.

Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp kicks to a heavy bag.
--
-Wayne

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Lyle McDonald wrote:

got it:
inertial dampener
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Star+trek+inertial+dampener&fr=fp-top
To read more.
Lyle
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Lee Michaels wrote:

Put some money in an interest generating bank account. Get a time machine. Travel to the 24th century (or whenever "Enterprise" is set, I'm assuming that would be roughly when the inertial dampener had been perfected sinec Scott Bakula is still alive). Buy one with the money from the interest bearing account.
Lyle
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Lyle McDonald wrote:

That's about what it would take to damp a heavy bag.
--
-Wayne

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Unless you are sure you will center the lag bolts on the rafters, I would bolt a 2x4 or 2x6 across 2 rafters using 2 bolts on each end, paint the board the same color as ceiling, then bolt the plate onto the 2x4 or 2x6.
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Use your search engine for info on how to hang a sex swing. The dynamics are similar. -B

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Jeez, she helps you out with your bonus room, and now you want to hang and beat her? BTW, 80lbs isn't that heavy, you sure she isn't anorexic?
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