Not really, I have to deal with AAEs all the time. It's a competency issue. If you read Steve's post, his paperwork was not sent to him as required. My guess is the AAE effect. The truth always hurts.
TDD
Your guess is not necessarily the truth, and you're sounding like quite the bigot. Incompetence is everywhere, trust me.
In The State of Washington, one needs the "government" permission to feed, cloth and shelter his/her self by means of "self employment." This permission includes requirements that one must, in addition to having a license (permission to do what, otherwise, would be illegal), have both a bond and insurance.
Bonds tend to be much cheaper than insurance, the rates of which have sky rocketed in recent years. Bonds can be sued to recoup losses and damages. If the bonding company must pay out, it goes after the person it bonded to recoup its loss. Insurance, on the other hand, pays on their behalf. A bond leaves the person bonded liable, but insures the injured they will be paid up front (after a hell of a lot of effort and legal expense).
An example application of a bond can be seen in its application to government officials. They also must be bonded and that bond can be attached for theft and such seven years after the person they left office. They don't have to have insurance, though the municipal or other entity will have insurance covering their acts and omissions.
From Wikapedia:
A surety bond is a contract among at least three parties:
Through this agreement, the surety agrees to uphold=97for the benefit of the obligee=97the contractual promises (obligations) made by the principal if the principal fails to uphold its promises to the obligee. The contract is formed so as to induce the obligee to contract with the principal, i.e., to demonstrate the credibility of the principal and guarantee performance and completion per the terms of the agreement. Contract bonds guarantee a specific contract. Examples include performance, bid, supply, maintenance and subdivision bonds. Commercial bonds guarantee per the terms of the bond form. Examples include license & permit, union bonds, etc.
Suretyship bonds originated hundreds of years ago as a mechanism through which trade over long distance could be encouraged. The first corporate surety firm in the United States was United States Fidelity and Casualty Company of New York, established in 1880. According to the Surety & Fidelity Association of America annual US surety bond premiums are approximately $3.5 billion. State insurance commissioners are responsible for regulating corporate surety activities within their jurisdictions. The commissioners also license and regulate brokers or agents who sell the bonds.
Surety bonds are frequently used in the construction industry: in order to obtain a contract to build the project, the general contractor (and often the sub-contractors as well) must provide the owner a bond for its performance of the terms of the contract. Conversely, owners and contractors may also provide payment bonds to ensure that subcontractors and suppliers are paid for work done. Under the Miller Act, payment and performance bonds are required for general contractors on all U.S. federal government construction projects where the contract price exceeds $100,000.00.
Importer Entry Bond is a customs bond posted by an importer to guarantee the payment of import duties and taxes, and to assure compliance with any pertinent law, regulation or instruction. An Importer Entry Bond is required on all commercial shipment of goods entering the commerce of the United States. An Importer Entry Bond may be written as either a single transaction or continuous bond (self- renewing). The bond amount for a continuous bond is determined by taking multiples of $10,000 nearest 10% of duties, taxes and fees paid by an importer during the last calendar year. The minimum continuous bond amount is $50,000.
Surety bonds are also used in other situations, for example, to secure the proper performance of fiduciary duties by persons in positions of private or public trust.
A key term in nearly every surety bond is the penal sum. This is a specified amount of money which is the maximum amount that the surety will be required to pay in the event of the principal's default. This allows the surety to assess the risk involved in giving the bond; the premium charged is determined accordingly.
If the principal defaults and the surety turns out to be insolvent, the purpose of the bond is rendered nugatory. Thus, the surety on a bond is usually an insurance company whose solvency is verified by private audit, governmental regulation, or both.
The principal will pay a premium (usually annually) in exchange for the bonding company's financial strength to extend surety credit. In the event of a claim, the surety will investigate it. If it turns out to be a valid claim, the surety will pay it and then turn to the principal for reimbursement of the amount paid on the claim and any legal fees incurred.
A bail bond is a type of surety bond used to secure the release from custody of a person charged with a criminal offense. Under such a contract, the principal is the accused, the obligee is the government, and the surety is the bail bondsman, and if the accused fails to appear, a fugitive recovery agent is the surety.
In The State of Washington, one needs the "government" permission to feed, cloth and shelter his/her self by means of "self employment." This permission includes requirements that one must, in addition to having a license (permission to do what, otherwise, would be illegal), have both a bond and insurance.
Bonds tend to be much cheaper than insurance, the rates of which have sky rocketed in recent years. Bonds can be sued to recoup losses and damages. If the bonding company must pay out, it goes after the person it bonded to recoup its loss. Insurance, on the other hand, pays on their behalf. A bond leaves the person bonded liable, but insures the injured they will be paid up front (after a hell of a lot of effort and legal expense).
An example application of a bond can be seen in its application to government officials. They also must be bonded and that bond can be attached for theft and such seven years after the person they left office. They don't have to have insurance, though the municipal or other entity will have insurance covering their acts and omissions.
From Wikapedia:
A surety bond is a contract among at least three parties:
Through this agreement, the surety agrees to uphold=97for the benefit of the obligee=97the contractual promises (obligations) made by the principal if the principal fails to uphold its promises to the obligee. The contract is formed so as to induce the obligee to contract with the principal, i.e., to demonstrate the credibility of the principal and guarantee performance and completion per the terms of the agreement. Contract bonds guarantee a specific contract. Examples include performance, bid, supply, maintenance and subdivision bonds. Commercial bonds guarantee per the terms of the bond form. Examples include license & permit, union bonds, etc.
Suretyship bonds originated hundreds of years ago as a mechanism through which trade over long distance could be encouraged. The first corporate surety firm in the United States was United States Fidelity and Casualty Company of New York, established in 1880. According to the Surety & Fidelity Association of America annual US surety bond premiums are approximately $3.5 billion. State insurance commissioners are responsible for regulating corporate surety activities within their jurisdictions. The commissioners also license and regulate brokers or agents who sell the bonds.
Surety bonds are frequently used in the construction industry: in order to obtain a contract to build the project, the general contractor (and often the sub-contractors as well) must provide the owner a bond for its performance of the terms of the contract. Conversely, owners and contractors may also provide payment bonds to ensure that subcontractors and suppliers are paid for work done. Under the Miller Act, payment and performance bonds are required for general contractors on all U.S. federal government construction projects where the contract price exceeds $100,000.00.
Importer Entry Bond is a customs bond posted by an importer to guarantee the payment of import duties and taxes, and to assure compliance with any pertinent law, regulation or instruction. An Importer Entry Bond is required on all commercial shipment of goods entering the commerce of the United States. An Importer Entry Bond may be written as either a single transaction or continuous bond (self- renewing). The bond amount for a continuous bond is determined by taking multiples of $10,000 nearest 10% of duties, taxes and fees paid by an importer during the last calendar year. The minimum continuous bond amount is $50,000.
Surety bonds are also used in other situations, for example, to secure the proper performance of fiduciary duties by persons in positions of private or public trust.
A key term in nearly every surety bond is the penal sum. This is a specified amount of money which is the maximum amount that the surety will be required to pay in the event of the principal's default. This allows the surety to assess the risk involved in giving the bond; the premium charged is determined accordingly.
If the principal defaults and the surety turns out to be insolvent, the purpose of the bond is rendered nugatory. Thus, the surety on a bond is usually an insurance company whose solvency is verified by private audit, governmental regulation, or both.
The principal will pay a premium (usually annually) in exchange for the bonding company's financial strength to extend surety credit. In the event of a claim, the surety will investigate it. If it turns out to be a valid claim, the surety will pay it and then turn to the principal for reimbursement of the amount paid on the claim and any legal fees incurred.
A bail bond is a type of surety bond used to secure the release from custody of a person charged with a criminal offense. Under such a contract, the principal is the accused, the obligee is the government, and the surety is the bail bondsman, and if the accused fails to appear, a fugitive recovery agent is the surety.
First, sorry about the double post.
I got into the handyman-remodel business on the advice of a contractor friend. He was always complaining about the poor quality [licensed, bonded and insured] professionals were putting out. Too many just blow out jobs. Their work looks good (or not) to the homeowner, but is trash underneath a veneer of some sort. I had pro's who wanted to pour concrete on top the ground (to hell with frost lines and heave). Bonds, licenses and insurance don't always guarantee quality for the money.
There is the another side to the license, bonding and insurance issue: Courts will allow homeowners to steal from those who are not licensed, bonded and insured by refusing to hear cases in which they are involved.
In the end, it's like your own health. You have to take an interest. The uninsured, unlicensed worker may provide a bargain, while the state authorized worker may be better at paying for his big fancy truck. Or it may go the other way, and it often does. Truth be known, you have more recourse against the individual operating without gubermint permission than he does against you. You send L&I after him, for example.
Laundry called. Your bedsheets are done. PLONK.
I wish I could find somebody around here, for all the stuff I need done. I know how to do most of it, but I'll never get around to it. What has put me off looking again is the sour experience I had with the trades I brought in here when I first bought the place, for the urgent stuff. Several of them, I had to walk them through how something was done. Others (electrician, plumber) either botched the work or lied to me and said they had inspected stuff that I found out several months later they hadn't even gotten near. Plumber got pretty cranky when I called him back the third time to fix a leaky elbow on the water softener feed. Nothing complicated, good access, new parts. Given a torch, which I didn't have, I could probably have fixed it myself, and I have sweated maybe 5 joints in my life. Electrician (a local name company) said they had inspected ALL the wiring, but when I got in attic a couple months later to figure out how to rewire bathroom, I found an open junction box with multiple loose connections, such that when I touched one wirenut to look in the bottom of the box, several of them popped off. I could go on, but you get the idea.
I have no heartburn with $35-50 an hour for a skilled pro that will get in and get out, and do a competent job. But I don't wanna pay those rates for someone that has equal or fewer skills than I do.
-- aem sends...
Bonded and insured are VERY different concepts. The person posed the question if bonded versus insured were the same. Quite definitely not. Not if you want to have some kind of coverage for the customer in case something goes wrong with the work. Or to protect the customer in case something goes wrong as a result of the work. Actually, the bonding I had provided ZERO protection, or advantage of any form, for the customer.
Define "bigot". You're sounding like quite the liberal, commie, politically correct, brain washed, Democrat dingle berry.
*snicker*TDD
I love the feel of white satin against my skin.
*snicker*TDD
There is a difference between a bond and insurance.
Definition 1 A bond issued by an entity on behalf of a second party, guaranteeing that the second party will fulfill an obligation or series of obligations to a third party. In the event that the obligations are not met, the third party will recover its losses via the bond.
Insurance: A promise of compensation for specific potential future losses in exchange for a periodic payment. Insurance is designed to protect the financial well-being of an individual, company or other entity in the case of unexpected loss. Some forms of insurance are required by law, while others are optional. Agreeing to the terms of an insurance policy creates a contract between the insured and the insurer. In exchange for payments from the insured (called premiums), the insurer agrees to pay the policy holder a sum of money upon the occurrence of a specific event. In most cases, the policy holder pays part of the loss (called the deductible), and the insurer pays the rest. Examples include car insurance, health insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, and business insurance. This content can be found on the following page:
From there, it gets complicated with surety bonds, performance bonds, bid bonds, etc. Then you have liability insurance, workman's insurance, etc.
It has been my experience that MOST people who actually are bonded and insured will be able to provide them in a timely manner. In the state where I was a steel erection contractor, ONLY a letter from the workman's compensation insurance company mailed directly to the company/builder/owner was deemed legal. Copies of certificates were illegal. I was never asked to provide proof of a bond, although I had them. Once a company received the letter by mail, they were held harmless from a third party workman's suit against them.
On some jobs, there was a requirement that you included a bond with the bid for the amount of work, and a performance bond for the amount of work stating the timeline.
In many states, laws about advertising "licensed and insured" are toothless and worthless. Usually it is another contractor who drops a dime on someone. Then, in Nevada, they made it a felony to even verbally OFFER to do work for a fixed fee other than an hourly rate. It varies from there, and whether people observe the law or the agency enforces it varies greatly, also. Usually tho, this occurs when someone's ox gets gored, and they lose a job to an unlicensed contractor.
Unless you are working on a government job, and that would require ten more paragraphs to give the basics.
HTH
Steve
I weld. I don't take the padlock off the container for less than $50. Unless she's purty.
Nah, I do barter, and do favors, but I keep close track of those, too as some neighbor's and relative's math is horrible. When bartering services, full value for full value. But lots of times, people have given me more in goods than I would have charged them in money.
$2 a day tool upkeep? You can't buy a small box of nails for that hardly. In today's world, $25 an hour will barely buy you a good new hammer. And have you looked at nailguns and compressors? And brake jobs? Lunch is $5 to $10. Don't forget travel time.
I agree with you. If we ain't talking real money, I'd rather be napping or fishing.
Steve
If a guy would just come in, and work at a steady rate, that would be good. But they seem to slow down, getting less done each day. Then everyone starts getting antsy, and the comments about how long you worked last week, and if this is really enough money for this skill or that .............
Steve
Yabbut a lot of them are derelicts and fugitives. Referrals are best, and as you know, they are slow now. The that's the gravy jobs. People who pay and appreciate good work and tell friends. Yeah, I had Ahole people, but most only got a proposal.
Know whut uh mean, Vern?
Steve
"SteveB" wrote
Grin, we get great work from local folks. Our fav handyman charges 'by the job' and likes to take his sweet time which suits us just fine. Last job was to replace yet another door with a prehung one. His rate is 50$ plus door and supplies. Now, we both know thats silly. So, we fed him and tipped him an extra 100$.
I always offer food and even adapt to the workers needs of low salt, or 'no pork' etc. Don and I both are good cooks. We are well known for taking care of the workers and I don't mean just a few sodas.
We are negotiating with the team that did a partial job on our wood fences (we could not afford the whole job so they patched some last fall). Part of the deal is that I make up a big batch of my pulled BBQ pork with enough they can all take home plenty for their kids and family ;-). Told'em my one quibble point is I am a bit challanged just now on tupperware stuff so they gotta bring some.
Offer up now is all they can eat (6 guys plus the boss) plus 3 lbs each to take home. It's hilarous as they counter offered to reduce the BBQ if I make lots of fresh bread and sides. My counter to that was one of the guys needs to loan us a coffee maker (we dont have one) so we can keep hot chocolate or hot tea running to the workers, and we added if they also want coffee, we need 2 of them loaned so one can have nice fancy stuff (we have a grinder). Now, they are quibbling coffee types but seem to have settled on my mixed kona and vanilla bean.
So, in addition to a good rate and very high quality work, we are having a bit of fun negotiating the side items they know I'd do anyways! (I know the rate is reduced, but not so much that they arent making money which is fair to both of us).
BTW, I know this team. One of the fellows doesnt do pork due to religion so he's getting a special dish I devised that is like pulled pork, but made of turkey legs. It's easy to make a little side crockpot for him and in fact, it's every bit as good as the pork dish. Just costs a tiny bit more time to make.
Umm, somehow I never seem to have problems getting workers to come and match my schedule ;-) These fellows are being patient with my finances and waiting til January and having fun with us in the meantime. Since I know them and am Xmas aware, we are paying 50% in advance on 15DEC. I wont have the rest til 15Jan but they slated us for right after New Years and will be happy to wait for the rest til the 15th.
Why the long post? Because s many do not realize a good relationship with a contractor is built on trust and over time. The fence folks got me as a referral from another contractor as good folks ;-)
[...]
Saw a story once about a young lady with an apartment in New York. She made friends with a single guy in the same building that had a tool kit. When she needed something done, she offered to trade a home-cooked meal for the repair. Their mental dialogs went something like:
She: "He's a miracle worker! He can put up a towel rack so it won't fall down and all I have to do is throw a couple of extra potatoes in the pot!"
He: "She's a miracle worker! For a couple the right kind of fifty-cent molly bolts, I get a delicious rack of lamb dinner!"
Then they had sex.
Absolutely. The best guys do not have full page ads in the Yellow Pages and are always busy. The good customers always get a fair price and the best workmanship.
HeyBub,
I have only been propositioned once on the job and that was by a 75 y/o women. I was 40 at the time. I passed. My wife laughed.
cm
The bond I had so many years ago. Said they would post up to $5,000 bail bond, if I were ever accused of illegally distributing a key or combination.
"cm" wrote in news:n_udnVufZM3m0LDUnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
Better snag the bottle of vegetable oil on the way back to the BR.
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