Gun lobby always wins

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On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:47:29 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Gary Kleck: (Amazon.com product link shortened)94717274&sr=1-1 (Amazon.com product link shortened)94717126&sr=8-3
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Indeed...
One of Representative Gifford's interns, a young fellow (unarmed), he looked for personal safety when the shooting started :(
An interview with a different young fellow (with a concealed carry) headed towards the shooting but never drew his weapon. By the time he got close, bystanders (unarmed) had tackled the shooter.
The shooter was a loose nut, acting strangely of a VERY long time. He was kicked out of community college. Campus admin & police met with him and his parents....... no re-admit until he got clearance from a mental health professionals.
Sounds very similar to the incident at VPI.
Why are there seldom (never?) these types of shootings at a gun show, pawn shop or police station? Because the shooters might be crazy but they're not stupid.
cheers Bob
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Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others.
I'm responsible not only defending my own life, but also the life of my family. I cannot do that with a pointy stick.
reply: My daughter was being threatened by gang girls in her junior year in high school. For the last three months of the school year, we home schooled her. Then for her final year, she went to a new satellite school for talented students.
When I went to police and school officials and told them of the threats to her, they said, "If the girls do anything to her, they will be in trouble." Excuse me. Do I have to wait until she is maimed or killed before you will do anything? Apparently so.
There were two girls. The brother of one was killed by a homeowner in a home invasion. The brother of the other was killed at a convenience store in a drive-by. They were serious gangsters.
At times, you can not defend yourself without letting the perpetrators injure you. And, as with the Arizona shooter, there is nothing that police or teachers or the system can or will do to the perpetrator who is terrorizing people and acting a jerk.
But, boy, once they kill some people, now they're in trouble!
Trouble is that people are unnecessarily dead.
Steve
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Rights are always threatened. You see the problem is that rights are not inalienable, whether people use the adjective or not. Your rights have to be exercised and defended. All of them - not just owning guns.
People used to have to check their guns at the door when they went into a saloon. Why would that be if everyone were carrying guns? I mean, everyone having guns makes it safe, right?
http://mainecampus.com/2010/02/15/check-your-guns-at-the-door / I pretty much agree with everything in that article. How do you feel about it?
When the "government" comes for you they won't be restricting themselves to handguns and rifles. They've got planes, tanks and the Bomb, not to mention chemical weapons, drones, etc., etc. But they won't need to resort to that, as they control food, water and power supplies. I suppose if you were that concerned about it you could remove yourself to a place where you would have some control over your food, water and power, but that could never be complete, could it? Me? I weigh the odds, figure out if there's something I can do about it, and if not, well, I go about my business and don't worry about it.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Of course they won't resort to that, mainly because the troops would flatly refuse to carry out such orders.
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wrote:

then we dont need guns to protect us from govt if troops wont carry out the order
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bpuharic wrote:

But it could be an "alternate" army. As in the Army of Northern Aggression.
Or the existing army could be so depleted and/or engaged elsewhere that a guerrilla army from Juarez, numbering (if you believe the press) several tens of thousands decides to invade El Paso.
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wrote:

ah, well, then. that makes it OK

yeah i know. all the wetbacks coming to steal our corn, eh?

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bpuharic wrote:

You've never seen "The Children of the Corn"?
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wrote:

i prefer the fermented and distilled variety

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On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:55:15 -0800 (PST), RicodJour

I guess that's why Afghanistan has been such a cakewalk, those AK47s in the hands of the citizens of Afghanistan have not impeded our assaults at all have they.
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While it's not exactly clear to me why anyone actually *needs* automatic and assault weapons, that wasn't the problem here nor is it ever. The problem also isn't heated political rhetoric which for some reason seems to be getting lots of press in this incident. There are lots of people who are really angry at government or at specific legislators, most of them don't go on a killing rampage.
The problem is a mentally unstable person who committed a violent act. What do you propose be "done" about it? A determined attacker could probably have done a similar amount of damage with a hunting knife. Look how many people John Hinckley took down with a dinky .22 and in the presence of heavily armed, highly trained bodyguards who were there specifically to deter such an act.
Loughner could have just as easily set off a homemade bomb or 3. He could have had a shotgun or run into the crowd with an SUV. Trite but true - guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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wrote:

doesnt do much for the argument that if everyone was armed this wouldnt have h appened, does it?

and yet 11,000 people arent killed by bombs or knives every year.
in the most heavily armed nation on earth we have the highest murder rate of any industrialized country
but there's no connection, right?
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No one is making the argument that crime would never happen. You're ignoring that such an occurrence is very situational. There are no guarantees but criminals are stopped by armed citizens all the time.

Oddly, people were killed in acts of violence before firearms existed. Guns aren't the problem, people with the intent to harm others is the problem.

For the sake of argument assuming your "facts" are true, no you can't simply make a simplistic assumption such as you're making.
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wrote:

and yet other countries have murder rates orders of magnitude lower than ours...without guns.
orders of magnitude. so if guns stop violent crimes...why is our murder rate so high?

and yet other countries dont have this problem.

a cliche. if guns arent the problem, why does the most heavilly armed country on earth have the highest murder rate in the developed world?
you keep dancing around the issue.

gee. why not?
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Cite specifics.

Is murder rate synonymous with murder by gun rate? And who is committing these killings? I imagine if one takes an unflinching look at who is doing the killing a picture will emerge that the politically correct won't like.

Murder happens in every country. Cite specific statistics.

A fact. A gun is merely a tool that's used based on the intent of the person wielding it.
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Doc wrote:

Well, there's the Vatican and, er, possibly others. The Swiss Guard does, however, have long, pointy thingies.
And I know for a fact that the gun homicide rate for Rhodesia, Patagonia, and British Honduras is very close to zero.
I'm still looking for Shanri-La's homicide rate. I'll report when I find it.
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wrote:

i did. it's called wikipedia. go look it up yourself

the reference has homicide by guns.
And who is

so you think other countries dont have minorities?
http://www.stefanwolff.com/files/min-eu.pdf
sorry. they do.
oh. your racist explanation just blew up in your face
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bpuharic wrote:

Because we have the highest rate of do-bads in the world.
Just think how much worse crime would be if we stopped culling the herd!
Jeeze! The stink-eyes are like beaver teeth - you've got to keep them filed down or they'll kill you.
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I was hoping that Dr. B would discover the correlation on his own, the answer is in the data I linked to. :(
Dr. B got it now?
Only focused on ranting?
Figured out why the US murder rate has dropped by half since its local peak in 1980? And the details of drop?
Can't see the answers or are you avoiding the answers? Study harder............ cheers Bob
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