grounding water pipe

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Some supply water service coming to the houses can be PVC pipe and will not ground the house piping system. So you ground it because of this reason.

TURTLE

[Doug Miller]

See below (and elsewhere in this thread, in posts by myself and Tom H, among others) where the Code is quoted or cited. This requirement applies only to

*metal* water pipe. If the service lateral, and the entire home, are plumbed in plastic, there is no possibility of the plumbing becoming energized, and thus no need to ground it.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[HorneTD]

John

Did you notice that we are now required to use the reinforcing steel whenever it is present because the words "when available" have been removed from the code language. Under the 2005 code we must connect to the rebar so the GC had better get us out to the job before the concrete is poured.

As to this thread all we can do is provide the best information available to us. That is were our responsibility ends. I do understand the frustration of a home owner who is told to do it that way because I said so. Inspectors should be trained in communication as well as in just the codes that they are to enforce. Taking the time to explain why it should be done a particular way will educate the home owner and improve over all electric safety.

-- Tom

[John Grabowski]

Yeah the rebar connection came up in class. The instructor said that if we are lucky to get there in time to bond to it that would be great. If not, he said that they will probably start making it the responsibility of the general contractor or the masonry contractor to install the bonding wire. The plumbing contractors in this state are now required to install the hot/cold bonding jumper when they replace a water heater.

I've talked to several inspectors about the homeowner do-it-yourself issue. Basically they don't like it because it is more work for them and they always find more problems or shortcomings then they do with an experienced contractor. One inspector told me that he is not here to instruct homeowners on how to do a good job. Here in NJ not all inspectors are directly employed by the city or town. We have third party agencies that have contracts with towns to inspect electrical jobs being done in their jurisdiction. Those private agency guys just want to get in and inspect and get out. If they fail the job, their only legal requirement is to cite the code article that justifies the failure.

I personally believe that if someone is willing to take on project without prior experience, he or she should spend a lot of time studying up on it before the project begins. It seems as though some people don't ask questions until they have begun the work.

John G.

[HorneTD]

The remedy I favor is to have the concrete guys stub up a piece of corrosion resistant coated rebar at the location of the planned service equipment. I don't want the concrete guys or the reinforcement assemblers making any connection that I will then become responsible for so they can just stub up a piece of rod and leave it for me to do the rest. A stubbed up piece of half inch or larger rebar is far more resistant to physical damage during construction then a grounding electrode conductor of any gage that would have to survive the construction process for months until the electricians can get on the job and make the connection.

-- Tom H

[John Grabowski]

That is ideal, but in many cases an electrical contractor has not been hired at that stage of construction. In residential construction here rebar is not always used in the footings. Currently NJ has not yet adopted the 2005 NEC and if and when they do some requirements may get omitted. For instance, arc fault circuit interrupters are not required here.

[HorneTD]

Well if there is no steel in the footer we are off the hook anyway. If the building inspectors require a stub up for those footers that have reinforcing steel then the scheduling of the electrician will be a much smaller problem.

I solute those jurisdictions who realized that the installation of AFCIs in new homes is a solution in search of a problem. On the other hand I do try to install them on every heavy up that involves older BX with no bonding strip or knob and tube wiring.

[modervador]

Since the

There may be more to the issue than ventillation. When I was replacing windows using Pella "replacement" windows, the inspector was interested in the sizes of the replacements because windows are a means of egress during emergency, like in a fire. I guess the idea is if the glass is smashed out by throwing a chair through the window, there needs to be enough of an opening through which to squeeze an American Fatt Butt lest it become an insurance statistic.

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[modervador]

I've never known of someone to go the trouble and expense of putting an addition on a property he didn't own while calling it "my house." Or is your point that toller isn't in the US and inspectors are less lenient where he lives?

%mod%

William Deans wrote:

bedroom. The

[Goedjn]

Nope, the window has to actually open to count as a means of egress. Well, at least the lower sash does.

According to the 1997 Uniform Building Code (Sec. 310.4): "Escape or rescue windows shall have a minimum net clear openable area of 5.7 square feet (0.53 square meter). The minimum net clear openable height dimension shall be 24 inches (610mm). The minimum net clear openable width dimension shall be 20 inches (508mm). When windows are provided as a means of escape or rescue, they shall have a finished sill height not more than 44 inches (1118mm) above the floor."

[modervador]

replacing

interested

Goedjn wrote:

height

height

OK, cool, thanks. So change that part about smashing the glass to opening the lower sash. At any rate the point stands that it's not just about ventillation. When a window is eliminated by a remodel, it probably gives the inspector authority to require that other items in the room be brought up to current codes.

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