gluing glass to neoprene?

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I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black, glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I buy?
Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use sandpaper, emery paper, etc?
I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.
My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat gun if you think that will help.
The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.
Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene. Which is better?
Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a 2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/ glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the glass while it sets. Good idea?
Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided. Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed, and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I think Toyota didn't plan ahead.
Thanks.
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On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:

my corvette convertible glass window came unattached from the top, which is some kind of plastic coated fabric cloth.
i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you to reposition it.
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chaniarts wrote:

Most of these use the PVB that is sandwiched between the two panes of glass that make up the window. It is then bonded to the top. The catch is that it doesn't really hold up that well exposed to air/cleaners/acid rain and such.

If I was doing the repair I would probably make up a frame out of stainless that would clamp the top material and a lip that the glass could be bonded to with urethane.
--
Steve W.

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RTV will stick to glass very well, and will stick to many "rubber" materials.
The urethanes are stronger (mostly because RTV has poor shear strength) but don't stick as well to glass. Still, I'd try the 3M Weatherstripping Adhesive (the yellow stuff) experimentally to see. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 10/24/2011 05:14 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

doesn't stick to natural rubbers very well. organics and silanes don't play well without an organo-silane in the mix!

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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wrote:

This might be the original window, 11 years old. I've found that tops last me about 7 years and windows last through 2 tops. )The top still looks very good,)
My own experience has been that none of the 3 convertible windows I've had break had iiuc an inner layer. That is, all three shatttered into many pieces about the size of a raisin. The first was a 65 Pontiac that got broken during the middle of the day, maybe by kids playing ball. The pieces were all over the lower boot. Then I had a 73 Buick with a scissors top and a guy was jabbering at me and the top was screwed up, the sides were out of sync, and I broke the window myself lowering the top**, and the third came from an 88 LeBaron, I had a new top and window put on and I had him save me the window, so I coudl see for myself how hard they are.
First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.
***I think maybe my home and storm windows flex too. I'm not sure. No thermopane (except the sliding doors), separate windows, and I'm pretty sure one bends, which would mean they all do.
**Scissors tops were only used on Buicks and Cadillacs I think (and Chevys or Olds?), from '73 to 76, when GM thought that the NTSB was going to require roofs to be strong enough to support the car. They were a terrible design and the NTSB never requried that. So thiis is not an issue many people face.
Thanks.

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micky wrote:

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.
--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

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And that's good, since I don't have to worry about every little thing breaking it. I used to fear that at first.
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On 10/25/2011 07:32 PM, Ron wrote:

ever seen the little safety hammers by bus and train windows? they weigh less than 1lb, but will smash tempered glass with ease because they have a hardened point that will initiate cracking, and with tempered glass, that crack instantly progresses into the thousands of small pieces that the glass then becomes.
if you have to smash tempered glass, get a piece of broken spark plug insulator, place that on the glass sharp side down, then strike that with a hammer. works every time.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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jim beam wrote:

A piece of spark plug ceramic itself will break a piece of tempered glass for some strange reason. Tempered glass will break easily if you tap it on the edge...especially the corner. And I believe those hammers were phased out by spring loaded center punches.
--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

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I didn't believe spring-loaded center punches would work in metal, until I tried one.

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On 10/25/2011 08:34 PM, Ron wrote:

it's not strange, it's just outside most people's experience. it's all perfectly normal if you're a fracture mechanics and stress concentrations geek.

edge effects. glass surfaces are flawed. flaws can propagate into cracks. tempered glass works by using tensile stress within the core to compress surface flaws so they don't easily progress into cracks. but you can't compress an edge because one of your three dimensions is missing. on a corner, you're pretty much removing two of your three dimensions. so, no compression means easy crack propagation.

often, yes. harder to get wrong if an operator is panicking.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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So I gather, prior to getting the tape I need, if I continue to let my window go thump when the top edge of the window passes the top rear edge of the rear seat, I have a greater risk than normal, a pretty high risk, of the window breaking. ??
When the Lebaron separated from the curtain, it was at the bottom of the window and the top went down and up as usual. In fact, after trying 2 or 3 times, I eventually realized I didn't even have to fix it, because the rain ran down the window, into the vinyl lower boot, and out the drains.

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On 10/26/2011 8:25 AM, micky wrote:

you can hit a tempered window with a baseball bat numerous times, and it won't usually break. the hitting is not cumulative. you can scratch it with a nail and it will shatter the first time.
tempered glass is formed by cooling the outside faster than the inside, putting the outside in tension and the inside in compression. glass is very strong in compression, very weak in tension. the differing force is released during a scratch on the surface or edge.
it's great fun to set off a tempered sheet of glass, but you'd be picking up glass chunks for quite a while. i use shattered tempered glass to build art pieces.

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On 10/26/2011 08:42 AM, chaniarts wrote:

other way around - the core is in tension, outside in compression.

yup. and tempered glass is strong because the tensioned core is not at the surface where the flaws are.

it's the tension force. if you introduce a flaw deep enough that it reaches the core, then it goes.

have you ever played with "prince rupert's drops"?

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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it's tempered glass because in a collision,it breaks up into little pieces instead of dangerous big shards that will cut you.

a spark plug is what thieves use for their smash-n-grabs. or a spring-loaded centerpunch.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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Ron wrote:

And actually MUCH easier to destroy the whole piece at once. Just chip the edge or create a rapid high stress point on the surface.
The high stress point has to be a POINT though, even a hammer head diffuses the impact enough.
Use a sharp pointed hammer though and it will take out the glass with a mild tap.
We use glass hammers, spring punches and even car antennas to take out glass during extrication.
For laminated it's harder, especially some of the new structural support glass. With that a sawzall and a glass blade work well. Evan the glass master is hard to work with on that stuff.
--
Steve W.

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On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:58 -0700, chaniarts

Well, based on your experience and what you say and what I've been reading now, it sounds pretty good.
Does it have a liner on both sides, so I can cut it to fit without it getting stuck on the scissors? And so I can put it on with less trouble? (I would make my own liner for the unlined side, but I guess it would stick to the tape!)
And is there any way I can get some without spending 72 dollars? Although I will if I have to.
Now much did you buy, and if it wasn't that much, where did you buy it? Maybe they only sell one kind, which would make it easy for me.
Also, there seems to be at least 15 kinds. Black and clear (and white), different thicknesses, conformable, and bond specific surfaces. http://www.packagingtapedepot.com/3mveryhighbondtape.aspx Do you know what exactly you used? I'm sorry I'm such a pain. If it weren't so expensive, I wouldn't ask so many questions.
3M has this page: http://services.shop3m.com/search/?keyword=vhb&WT.mc_ev=clickthrough&WT.mc_id=3M-com-GoogleOneBox-3M-VHB-HEAVY-DUTY-MOUNTING-TAPE-5952-8TRTQKPDT3 I clicked on sort by price, but it didnt' sort by price. It had a few reolls for under 50 dollars. Also it shows non-tapes, but I couldn't get rid of them.
Googling, I find a lot of people trying to find small amounts, and other people recommending 3M molding tape, but you have to let it set overnight, without any moving. I doubt I can do that. .
The 72 dollar roll is narrow too. 1/4 inch? I'd rather have a shorter roll of wider stuff. If I run two narrow strips side by side, and they don't match perfectly, do you think it will be very visible (very? at all?) through the glass (I won't buy white) ?
Thanks a lotl
P.S. Office Depot has it, but it costs between $700 and $2500!!
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I would try U-Glue - about $10 from Amazon. Walmart had it for a while.
---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44� 15' N - Elevation 1580')
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On 10/24/2011 10:42 PM, micky wrote:

it's been 4 years now, in phx, so has a lot of heat/sunlight but not very much rain. it's still 100% stuck, and waterproof.

it has a wax paper type on both sides. you peel off one side, lay it in place, peel off the other side, and touch the 2nd surface. press down a bit, and it's stuck. no need for clamping or any great pressure.

i use it in my glass work, so had some although i'm out currently. i use it to attach glass art pieces to backing (metal, granite, etc) displays.

i used <http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-17457/3M-VHB-Tapes/3M-4622-VHB-Double-Sided-Foam-Tape-1-2-x-36-yards
you probably don't need 36 yards though. you could always sell the rest of the roll on ebay per foot and make back more than it cost. lots of people need this but don't want a whole roll.
you might try calling a car window repair shop, or if near a large body of water, a place that repairs boats. it's used to hold boat and car windshields in in some places.

http://services.shop3m.com/search/?keyword=vhb&WT.mc_ev=clickthrough&WT.mc_id=3M-com-GoogleOneBox-3M-VHB-HEAVY-DUTY-MOUNTING-TAPE-5952-8TRTQKPDT3
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