I'm planning to put hardwood floor in one room. I think I understand
the difference between click-lock (C&L) and tounge & groove (T&G)
engineered hardwood. I've looked at three stores and to me, the
click-lock looks as good as T&G and is a lot cheaper. But I don't
like C&L because it creaks every step you take, it seems. So I'm
wondering about gluing down C&L, the way you would T&G. I understand
that you can glue down C&L but the problem is that it will be more
difficult to tear up way in the future.
Are there any other reasons to not glue down C&L?
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 1:40:00 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
Is 'click & lock' the same as laminate flooring? If it is
I have it down in my sewing/craft room and it's been down
for 9 years. No creaking or squeaking. The job was done
correctly with the thin layer of foam as Micky described.
It's a 'floating' floor; in other words it expands and
contracts with the weather. Gluing the floor down may or
may not cause warping and bowing. Just spring for the
thin foam layer and do the job correctly.
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 12:00:31 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
"engineered" hardwood doesn.t cup unless it expands enough to buckle
the floor. Still, not sure I'd consider gluing it, except for the
first couple rows and last couple rows you can'y get with the nailer.
- and with click-lock that's not even an issue.
IF engineered clic dlooring id uded it is NOT to be glued according
to the manufacturer and it must have the proper slip pad laid on the
subfloor first. Any other installation method voids the warranty.
If T&G engineered hardwood is used, it needs to be glued."together"
but NOT to the concrete.. It then becomes a floating floor, just like
Clic. If installing the floor over concrete, lay 6 mil plastic
sheeting over the concrete and overlap the seams by at least 8"
(20cm). I would tape the joints with Tuck Tape as used in regular
vapor barior installation. If the concrete is below grade, bring the
plastic at least 4" (10cm) up the wall. You will trim it off at the
height of the baseboard once the flooring has been installed. Roll out
the manufacturer's recommended foam underlayment, but do not overlap
the seams The hardwood is applied using regular carpenter's glue in
the groove or on the tongue. Clean up with a damp rag as you go.
There IS an aption to glue it down, but few manufacturers recommend
it today - and few installers as well. Glue-down installation requires
a premium urethane or acrylic wood adhesive be properly troweled over
the concrete slab and the engineered wood planks laid into the
adhesive and locked together at their tongue and groove joints. Today,
the recommended wood adhesives are much more environmentally friendly,
but are not cheap and take considerable amount of time to trowel,
which will add to the overall labor costs. They are also a real mess
to remove if required in the future - and it is NOT RECOMMENDED BELOW
I had about 300 sqft of laminate put in about 2 months ago. It came
with its own foam type backing so no extra foam was needed. They
delivered it about 3 days before installing it so it was aclimate to the
house. Sofar no squeks or other problems. They did run a large
streight edge over the floor and a couple of high spots were planed down
to make it level.
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I've ruled out laminate in favor of engineered wood. When we bought
this house a few years ago, we immediately pulled up the carpet in two
bedrooms and put down engineered T&G. I want to do the same with the
third bedroom, but it doesn't have to match the others.
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 3:44:21 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
I had around 400 square feet laid but I had to buy a few rolls of very
thin foam. I've got about a half roll and maybe a box of the laminate
left over and stored away. Thankfully no squeaks at all! I guess the
foam underlayment stops that and I'm quite pleased with it. Tongue and
groove would have been my first choice but my budget said no, you can't
afford it, go with the laminate.
Yes, exactly, although the floor I saw was done probably before click
and lock or laminate was invented. It was a classic hardwood floor,
each board about 2" wide, tongue and groove (except for the first or
last row where, even if it comes out to be a full board width
remaining, the tongue has to be cut off, so the wood will meet the
wall). Except by then they had cool machines that held a strip of
nails at the proper angle for nailing (into the V just above the
tongue) and all they had to do was hit the 3x3" or 4x4" flat target
with a heavy rubber? hammer, so the "nails" were put in in one whack.
They'd push the board into the groove, then start at one end and whack
a nail into place every 2 feet or so, iirc, and could completely do a
whole board in the middle of the floor in less than a minute. (they
rent these devices now, though I wouldn't count on the rental place to
tell you what nails to use, length etc.). At the start of the row
every second or 2 out of 3 boards had to be cut in half or a third
off** or so so the floor didn't look like a checkerboard. **Even
that shouldn't be exact or it will repeat itself too much.
I was there I guess to keep them from stealing something. He
certainly has a point but he turned out to be the biggest jerk I ever
knew. It took me almost 20 years to figure it out how bad it was.
(Like when my girlfriend brought a friend to one of his parties, a
very pretty girl, and he had just met her but he felt her up while
dancing and she left, of course. In NYC she took a cab or the subway
so that wasn't a problem, and I didn't know her well and I don't think
she blamed me, but it was still embarrassing; but I told myself, "She
can handle herself, and she did." But the last straw was when we went
camping and his date and her daughter got shigellosis (though we
didn't know what it was then.) The mother had a 101 fever and the
daughter 102 or close, but all he cared about was getting back to
NYC/Westchester by 10PM Sunday so he could be awake at work the next
day, and he didn't want to stop at the doctor/hospital. He said
they'd be fine, as if he were a doctor. Well they were fine, and all
the hospital did was give them water, by mouth, and watch them for an
hour, but he can't know that in advance.
There was an earlier story I never heard the details of, but he was on
his motorcycle crossing a bridge, maybe over the Hudson, maybe not --
it had I assumed a steel road surface -- in the rain and he fell and
the girl sitting behind him was pretty badly hurt, though I don't know
how bad or if anything was permanent - but the problem was that he
never uttered a word of regret or suggested he could have driven
better, slower so she didnt' get hurt. But I told myself he was
feeling that, just didn't share it with me, or had been feeling it
deeply months earlier when it had happened.
So back to the camping weekend, what really got me is that he was
annoyed that I didn't defer to him in deciding if they went to the
hospital or not, because she was HIS girlfriend. Thank goodness it
was MY car, and *I* was driving. And I told him, something as a
lawyer he should have thought about already, that the reason custom
and law is that a husband makes medical decisions for a wife and vice
versa is that there is an assumption that the other person's welfare
is (almost) as important as the one making the decision, and that he
will put a sick spouse's welfare ahead of his own, even though as we
all know, many people won't do that for someone more distant (and some
people won't do it for anyone.)
But that didn't apply to a girlfriend, especially in his case
(explanation upon request). Because, Say the mother or the daughter
got asthma and had to move to Arizona (back when that worked). Would
he go with them? Not at all. (He probably wouldn't even help them
pack.) He's say, Have a good trip, never see them again, and look for
another girlfriend. Their welfare was not of sufficient importance to
him. It was of greater importance to me. So we fought in the car for
4 hours and spent the last 2 hours in silence, and I think we haven't
said 30 words to each other since then.
There were other problem stories. He had the ability to make me think
he was doing something crooked even when there was no real evide nce
of it. Like one time we put on two performances, charged admission,
and raised what must have been hundreds of dollars (in 1966, so a lot
of money) and he said it was going to Calvert House, the Catholic
whatever on campus. But something about him made me think he was
keeping much of the money (that 6 or 8 of us had helped him make. We
weren't Catholics but his choice of "charities" was up to him, as long
as he gave them the money.) it was difficult to find out how much he
gave them, but I did and it seemed he didn't keep any.
But after I got back from Central America and had learned to
understand Spanish pretty well, he was a lawyer and he asked me to
translate a contract involving his firm's client into Spanish, for
$300 iirc, in 1971. That's at least 1000 in today's money and it was
fun too, and ego-boosting. He lent me an unabridged Sp. Eng
dictionary. And then just as or just after I was starting, he wanted
some of the money back, for himself. As a commission, he said. I'm
so stupid it took me 30 minutes to be certain that was 'wrong', or
better put, I was suspicious right away but couldnt' believe there
wasn't some reason it wasn't wrong. Af He said he was paying me
what a professional woudl get and I'm a novice. But I'm not that
stupid and I told him, Well fine. Hire a professional. I'm not
giving you any money. So he went through with the original deal.
It didnt' occur to me until 30 years later, when someone else
suggested it, that this would have been illegal. I j ust thought it
Now I've heard such a kickback is even illegal, though I don't know if
it was in NYS then. Anyone know?
So good riddance to my hard-wood floor ex-friend.
That's something I don't think they did, but perhaps Ididn't get there
until 10, and my then-friend went into work late, to see them get
started. It surely should have been done too, because it was a Soho
loft that had been a printing company, and who knows what had happend
to the 8" wide boards that made up the floor.
| But the tounge-and-groove engineered wood we've had glued down for
| years is doing fine.
Are you sure you mean glued down? The terms
here are confusing. "Engineered hardwood" is just
a valorizing marketing term for cheap plywood flooring.
It can be CL or glued, but in both cases it floats.
If you have a concrete floor (you should have
mentioned that! :) then you can float either type
of plywood flooring. But you wouldn't glue it down.
I misunderstood when you referred to T&G. I thought
you were asking about plywood flooring (CL) vs solid
wood flooring (T&G). The latter would need a wood
subfloor attached to the concrete, but it sounds like
that option was never something you were considering,
So.... use either type of plywood flooring. But float
it. Don't glue it to the concrete.
| BTW, I was going to have them install it rather than
| do it myself.
Then why are you asking how to do it?! If I were bidding
on that job and you started telling me how to do my work,
based on advice from a newsgroup, I'd walk out and be
sure never to do any more estimates for you. If you're not
doing the work then you need to get a good contractor
and let them do it their way.
I'm not really sure what "float" means, unless it means not fastened
Maybe I should explain better what I want.
Just after we moved to this house 14 years ago, we took up the carpet
in two bedrooms and put down engineered T&G hadwood. They glued it to
the concrete slab. If feels solid to walk on (doesn't give) and it
doesn't creak. Now I want to replace the carpet in another room.
I've looked at three stores, and there seems to be:
1. Laminate, not real wood.
2. Engineered wood that is click-lock, doesn't require glue
3. Engineered wood that is T&G, glued to the concrete slab
4. Solid wood.
I want something better than laminate, but not too expensive. I don't
want it to give or creak when I walk. I would use a professional
The room is just under 150 square feet in size. The ones that did the
floors the first time gave me a price of $8-10 per square foot.
I looked at HD and Lowes and they have stuff that is a lot cheaper.
I was thinking of having the cheaper CL floor glued down so that it
doesn't give or creak, but that sounds like a bad idea (although the
guy at Lowes said that some people do it).
Because I didn'tt know whether or not I should have them glue CL down
or not. I want it to feel solid and not creak when you walk on it.
| I'm not really sure what "float" means, unless it means not fastened
Float means the pieces are attached (glue or CL)
but the entire floor sits on a foam pad, held down
by the baseboards.
| Just after we moved to this house 14 years ago, we took up the carpet
| in two bedrooms and put down engineered T&G hadwood. They glued it to
| the concrete slab. If feels solid to walk on (doesn't give) and it
| doesn't creak. Now I want to replace the carpet in another room.
| I've looked at three stores, and there seems to be:
| 1. Laminate, not real wood.
| 2. Engineered wood that is click-lock, doesn't require glue
| 3. Engineered wood that is T&G, glued to the concrete slab
Are you sure? I wonder if you might have misunderstood.
The glue is generally in the joints, not on the bottom. It's
still a floating floor. A plywood floor would move a lot more
than the concrete. It might work OK to glue it to plywood,
but concrete? The only way I could see that working would
be with a rubber cement-type of product that allows for
a lot of movement.
Maybe it would be worthwhile checking the product
sites for spec sheets. But again, if you're hiring a
contractor they're going to want to do it their way.
| 4. Solid wood.
| I want something better than laminate, but not too expensive. I don't
| want it to give or creak when I walk. I would use a professional
| The room is just under 150 square feet in size. The ones that did the
| floors the first time gave me a price of $8-10 per square foot.
It wouldn't be hard to do it yourself. Especially
with the CL. If you get a nice wood it can look
just like solid wood. (Red oak, for instance, usually
looks good, while bamboo looks cheap and the
dark-stain varieties tend to look like cheap
wannabes.) The only tricky part is dealing with
doorways and taking up/replacing the baseboard.
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