Glazing with DAP 33`


First of all, please don't laugh at me - I admit to being n00bish :)
This question is directed primarily to those with experience glazing windows with DAP 33.
I have a wood frame, and a 8x10 piece of glass. The rabbet is 1/4 inch. I lay down a small bead of putty (DAP 33) into the rabbet. I press the glass into it. So far so good, looks good. Fits nicely. I install a glazier point in the middle of each side, four total.
Now for the fun part. I get a nice glob of putty, roll it into a ball, warm it a bit with my hands, roll it into a rope and press it into the groove. I take my putty knife, and try to run it along the grove to make a nice flat surface. I'm finding that no matter how I do this, the knife pulls the putty and I don't get a smooth surface.
I watched a video of someone doing this, and he made it look real easy. Bah.... I tried a plastic putty knife, a metal putty knife, plastic caulk smoothing gizmo that is supposed to MAKE CAULKING EASY ONLY $19.99 (actually cost about three bucks) and same problem. It pulls the putty and I don't get a smooth finish. Hold knife flat, angle it up, etc. Pulls putty.
So - what am I missing? What is the trick to doing this with DAP 33 so that you get a nice smooth finish? Warm it? Cool it? Mix in some linseed oil? This can't be that difficult....
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On 12/29/2009 7:04 PM, Zootal wrote:

shallower angle to get it smooth without pulling it out.
This link may wrap, but shows how: <http://www.rd.com/content/printContent.do?contentId 9723&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&heightP0&widthy0&modal=true>
MikeB
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this may help http://www.acehardware.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId 84491

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Zootal wrote: ...

Besides what others said...
Knife needs to be very smooth and you want a stiff blade that does not bend/flex much if any.
Be sure the glazing compound is fresh--doesn't have hardened lumps in it, etc., ...
Warm is good...if in a cool area, it may be cooling between the time you are rubbing/kneading it and placing it before edging. If so, try to either work it a little more or hopefully, find a warm spot in which to work...
Other than that, should go fine...
--
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It pulls it like its ripping pieces, then just go over it the other way or with your finger to settle it back down, its probably old putty and been on the shelf a long time, mix in linseed oil. but ive had that happen and I just go over it the oposite way to lay it back down.
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Welcome to the wonders of DAP 33, IMHO the worst excuse for a window glazing compound ever made. You'll probably have better luck with the house brand at Ace, Tru-Value, or Do-It-Best hardware.
Try working it around in your hands for ten minutes or so first -- if your hands aren't feeling a bit sore, you haven't been doing it long enough. You possibly aren't applying enough pressure with the putty knife, either.
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Thanks, everyone. The dastardly deed has been done :). I ended up using a 1" wood chisel because I didn't like any of my putty knives, and I liked the feel of the chisel. I dipped the tip of it in linseed oil (gotta get some mineral spirits...), and was able to get a fairly nice edge with a bit of practice. I don't know what fresh DAP 33 is supposed to be like. This stuff seemed to me to be fairly soft and sticky, and even warmed up I couldn't get a nice edge. I guess I needed the right tool and a bit of practice (and some advice from people here). The first pane took an hour or two...I must have ripped the putty out and redid it 3 or 4 times. The second pane was about 20 minutes, the third pane about 10 minutes. Funny how that works.
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Some suggestions for the future. After you get the frame cleared our and down to bare wood, rub some linseed oil into the wood.
Glazing points are cheap. I usually put one near the corner on each side and then at least one every 6 inches.
As you noted there is a learning curve in knifing in the putty and making it pretty. I have seen glazers stroke in putty about as fast as they could move the knife.
Give the putty a week or two to skin over and then give it a coat of oil based primer to seal being sure to leave a bead of paint on the glass and on the wood frame.
Just before you are going to give the window the color coat, you can razor trim the primer right to the edge of the putty, just be sure the color coat gets a small bead of paint on the glass. Don't worry too much about paint on the glass if you slip with the brush, the razor works fine for the first week to trim the paint away just be sure to leave about 1/32nd of an inch of paint on the glass.
Thanks for the after action report.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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Couple comments in case there is a "next time".
I did half a dozen wood storm windows plus a wood storm door this past year with the Dap 33 and one trick I got off one of those 5-in-the-morning diy shows was to mix in a little baby powder while you are rolling it around in your hand.
It seems to absorb the excess oil in the Dap 33 while not destroying the putty itself. It made control of it and smoothing much easier. It really works well.
With the last part about "redid it 3 or 4 times", that was my story too for some of it until I realized my nose was 6 inches away from what I thought was a problem vs. the 6' to 8' away most people would be, if they noticed the windows at all.
Don't get me wrong, I try to strive for perfection like everyone else does but as someone else mentioned in this thread, working with window putty is a skill but unless you do it alot, it's not going to become second nature.
With me it was the corners, trying to get the two angles, where they meet up as pro looking as I could. Some I got so frustrated with, I thumbed it and tucked whatever was sticking out with a flat screwdriver. Honestly, after the primer and paint went on, I don't know if I could go outside today and pick out which ones those were.
-bruce snipped-for-privacy@ripco.com
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Unfortunately, next time is happening now. I pulled out the next window, and the frame is badly rotted in places, so much that I think it would be easier to just make a new window instead of fixing this one. At least this time I know what to do this time around.
I appreciate the 6" vs 6' comment. Someone recently posted a link to an excellent tutorial, and the tutorial said that no one is going to look at your windows up close and comment on your crappy glazing job. So my corners are just rounded with my finger, and the heck with nice clean angles. Check out these pics:
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2009/2009DecemberWindowRepair1/images/12-30-09_2133.JPG
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2009/2009DecemberWindowRepair1/images/12-30-09_2135.JPG
This is the second window I pulled. Look at the wonderful glazing job! I can see finger prints of at least three different people. Some edges have nice narrow glazing that nicely matches the rabbet. It might be the original glazing, or it might have been done later by someone that knew what they were doing. Other edges have nice glazing, but it is wide and you can see from the other side of the window. Some edges have some sort of flexible gunk smeared along the edges of the pane, and it doesn't look like they even tried to make it look good.
This window is ten feet from my front door, yet in the four years I've owned this house I never noticed how crappy this window was. And I'm worried that someone might find some minor flaw in *my* glazing work??
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Zootal wrote:

down the breezes blowing through them. Only tried it myself, because none of the handymen in the ad paper wanted the job. 8 double-hungs. Carefully prying out as much of the old broken putty as I could, replacing a cracked pane or two, and reglazing without removing any intact panes. First one looks like crap, with lumps and putty showing from the inside of the window. By the time I got the hang of it, around pane 16, I was out of windows. Between that, and some blacksmithing on the aluminum storms, the windows are a lot tighter now. (Basically decent condition, just 1960 builder-grade single-panes. Payback period for insulated re-sash kits, much less new windows, exceeds how long I plan to keep the place....)
-- aem sends...
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Zootal wrote:

which brands I used. None of them behaved as you describe. I'd toss that batch and buy a fresh one. Is the wood primed? Clean, of course. If you are trying to get only 1/4" deep, it might be too small to hold.
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Did you seal the wood preferably with boiled linseed oil and do you have a bent putty knife?
It is a learned skill, but complete directions are here:
http://www.househomerepair.com/Windows_Doors/Glazing-Old-Single-Pane-Windows-Part-1.php
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On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:04:57 -0800, Zootal wrote:

I found with that stuff that it needed to be really warmed up to work well. Also that it goes off pretty quickly; I bought one of the large tubs of it and re-did quite a few windows with it last year, and by the end of the season the top layer of what remained was too dry to work with. Buying smaller tubs as needed would have been a better option.
Oh, I did however once make the mistake of getting some of that glazing compound that comes in the same style of cartridge as caulk - never again. That stuff was truly *nasty* to work with (I figured I'd try it as I'd become quite good at caulking, but that stuff went just about everywhere that I didn't want it, and nowhere that I did :-)
cheers
Jules
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On Dec 30 2009, 4:55pm, Jules

I had the opposite experience. Working with DAP 33 was a real bitch so I switched to DAP Window Glazing in the tube. The square shape of nozzle laid a good bead of glazing that needed very little touchup. After 5 years it is just as solid as -33 and looks a lot better.
KC
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