GFI outlet

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You raise a good point, and I don't know the answer. But I stand by my claims that 120 VAC household wiring, and the things that are powered by it, are extraordinarily unlikely to kill you.
See page 8 here, for a breakdown of the fewer than 50 per year electrocutions at home:
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia11/os/2007Electrocutions.pdf
And here's a fun story about how you could become the light bulb and die while the GFCI hums merrily along.
http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2010/05/gfcis-and-electrocution/
I invite any a.h.r. participant to uncover a cause of death that is as minuscule as electrocution at home, that has had as many billions poured into saving 2 or 3 lives, as the GFCI racket.
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Smitty Two brought next idea :

All US domestic wiring is only 120 volts above ground so who gets electrocuted?
--
John G



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John G wrote:

<Sidetrack> I have wondered: if US 240V outlets are wired as 120-0-120 where 0=ground how are they fused? Do you have a double pole breaker at the distribution board? How did they do it with wire fuses?
In the ancient days of british wiring, we sometimes had neutral fuses as well as live fuses. Until someone realised that was a crap idea - this is where neutral is bonded to ground at various points in the system.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

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Yes, that is correct.
How did they do it with wire fuses?
Same as with a breaker, one fuse in each leg.
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With the double breaker, if one leg over amps, it shuts down both power legs. How does one accomplish that with fuses? Could be dangerous if one fuse goes. "applicance doesn't work, so the power MUST be off! Right?"
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Yes, that is correct.
How did they do it with wire fuses?
Same as with a breaker, one fuse in each leg.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yes - a similar problem was encountered in the UK when in the very old days (sometime WWII-ish and before) they sometimes had "neutral" fuses.
(In the UK, the neutral leg is bonded to ground at various locations in the supply network so there is no need to be trying to fuse it)
Only thing is, this time you get a cold appliance energised at 240V!!
Similar thing happened to my great auntie. She had one of those radiant electric bar fires with an open wound bar (no quartz sleeving), nice wide gaps in the guard wires and a switch, which was single pole. Someone had wire Live and Neutral the wrong way in the plug, she turned it off at the fire switch and proceeded to hoover the element bar and reflector with a hoover with a metal pipe and nozzel.
Luckily, the earthing was good to the fire and that earthed the hoover pipe when it touched the bar. Bit of a bang though - gave her a scare...
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

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Per Smitty Two:

When I was an electronics tech in the military, the story they told us was that the most effective way to electrocute ones' self was to establish a path through the chest cavity - as in grasping a grounded beam or something for support with one hand while reaching into someplace with hot wires with another.
This would seem to differ significantly from the MythBusters scenario.
--
Pete Cresswell

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Agree. Having a hair dryer fall into the bathtub while you're in it is a lot different than say standing in wet shoes, on the ground and grabbing a conductor. Shortly after I graduated high school, one of the teachers there took the top part of a shop vac and attempted to use it to remove water from a pool. He was electrocuted while holding it. Classic example of a death that would have been prevented by a GFCI.
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Do you mean "prevented by a functioning brain"?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Shortly after I graduated high school, one of the teachers there took the top part of a shop vac and attempted to use it to remove water from a pool. He was electrocuted while holding it. Classic example of a death that would have been prevented by a GFCI.
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On 12/14/2012 3:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

A Mormon parochial teacher? ;-)
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I don't remember writing that. I went to public schools. Maybe a miscombonkulated attribute?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 12/14/2012 3:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

A Mormon parochial teacher? ;-)
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Hi, A good teacher. He taught you by real life demonstration.
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Me! Me! Me! I did that!
I got hung up on a power supply trainer unit while in ET school in the USCG and put 400VDC across my chest. 35 years later I can still see the burn scars on my hands. Lucky for me somebody pulled the plugged in time.
Two guys quit ET school that day after seeing me get hung up. I went on to work on transmitters with 25K VDC power supplies. Go figure.

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Per DerbyDad03:

One (urban legend?) story that we heard was about the guy who walked in front of the wrong transmitter dish at the wrong time and got his brains poached.
--
Pete Cresswell

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Good point - a lawnmower that just chopped it's own lead is one of the more common scenarios - especially as the user will invariably pick it up whilst standing on damp grass!
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."
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Sorry, I'm not ashamed on either count. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Shit.
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Smitty Two wrote:

Everything?
Plenty of grounded (Class I) appliances in europe - less than there used to be mind, but still quite a lot - and lots of old legacy appliances.
RCDs/GFCIs play a very important role in safety. Even with double insulated appliances it's still possible for a fault to expose someone to live mains - whilst they are standing on a concrete floor or leaning against a masonry wall or touching metal pipework.
The IET who write the wiring regulations for the UK now manadate *for domestic wiring* that all sockets[1] and all wiring[2] be RCD protected by a 30mA/40mS device. Given harmonisation that will be the case throughout the EU. This is a further increase over the previous edition. Those guys generally know what they are doing.
[1] With excpetions for certain sockets allowed, eg medical apparatus, fridges and freezers - but such sockets must be marked as unprotected
[2] Unless wiring is buried > 2" under the wall surface or mechanically protected with metal trunking, metal conduit or is an armoured cable construction. Too many dipweeds who will bang picture hooks in willy nilly...
What's the NEC's
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

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Tim Watts wrote:

view on this?
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

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Doug wrote:

NOT A SERIOUS SUGGESTION ======================= If you are brave:
Wire a resistor with a value about 3000 ohms between line/live and ground/earth and plug it in.
Assuming this is a 110-120V outlet and the GFCI is set at 30mA this should cause the GFCI to trip out (it would cause a current imbalance of about 35mA RMS which is a little more than a 30mA GFCI would be looking for. Adjust resistor if your GFCI is differently rated.
If there's no GFCI and the resistor has a power rating less than about 3-4W it's likely to act like a fuse and explode.
This is NOT an entirely serious proposition unless you are careful but it would make a fairly valid test and show that the GFCI was tripping at the right amount of current imbalance.
I would not be surprised if there was a ready made plug version (safely designed) that you could buy.
In fact:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sperry-GFI6302-GFCI-Outlet - Tester-/290770585838#vi-content
Looks like a variation on the classic neon based socket-wiring verifier. Only $18. Worth having I would say - GFCIs (or RCDs as we Brits call them) are prone to failure and sticking. At the very least, push the test button a couple of times a year as routing maintenance.
Of course, it does not tell you that your GFCI is tripping in the required time - for that you need a fancy tester.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim /

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You could do that. Or you could just push the TEST button that every GFCI has, which does the same thing. Actually, I think the required trip current that it tests to is a lot less than the 30ma, but otherwise it's the same thing.
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