GFCI wall outlet in unfinished basement

[Jay-T]

Thanks. I did just read 334.15 online at

.

There seems to be a gray area in there somewhere in terms of the "protection from physical damage" issue. It doesn't seem to be clear. Apparently, it is specifically okay to staple NM cable along running boards that go across the ceiling joists in an unfinished basement.

But, there is nothing specific about the stapling of NM cable to a running board that goes vertically down the wall to an outlet or switch. I guess that means it is allowed unless there is some reason to believe that the NM cable there needs to be protected from physical damage.

[JayTKR]

Oops, just to clarify "Jay-T" and "Beta-42" are both me, just different identities set up on two different Usenet newsservers.

[Beta-42]

Oops, sorry again. I seem to be suffering from multiple computer multiple personality disorder. It started when the news.eternal-september.org new server was down for a while and I was using my backup news servers are set up with different identities.

[terry]

Washers contain an AC motor; any possibility of the GFI outlet 'tripping'. (Due to momentary unbalance currents). Thinking of the same reason that GFIs not recommended for fridges etc. that also contain motor!

[keith]

They (both GFCIs and 'fridges) are *supposed* to be better about nuisance tripping. In any case, if the washing machine nuisance trips it's not as much of a danger as if it doesn't when needed. Whatever you think about 'fridges and GFCIs, washers should *always* have them. Water, ya know.

[RBM]

They (both GFCIs and 'fridges) are *supposed* to be better about nuisance tripping. In any case, if the washing machine nuisance trips it's not as much of a danger as if it doesn't when needed. Whatever you think about 'fridges and GFCIs, washers should *always* have them. Water, ya know.

There is actually no NEC requirement for "washers" to have GFCI protection. GFCI protection is governed by the location of the outlet, and or appliance manufacturer requirements

[John Grabowski]

Yes.

Yes. I have seen instances where the NM cable was strapped directly to the unfinished basement wall. If you keep the receptacle up high enough so that it is above the machine and not behind, there should be no physical damage issue.

[bud--]

Refrigeration that plugs into 15/20A 120V receptacles in commercial kitchens has to be on GFCI protected circuits. The problem is leakage, not imbalance. As John said, these days appliances in good repair should not trip GFCIs.

[jamesgangnc]

Be that as it may. If you have a major appliance that if fine other than nuisance tripping the gfci you gonna buy a new appliance? Or take out the gfci and replace it with a single outlet?

[RBM]

Be that as it may. If you have a major appliance that if fine other than nuisance tripping the gfci you gonna buy a new appliance? Or take out the gfci and replace it with a single outlet?

People can, and will do whatever they want, however the current NEC does not have a provision or exception for using anything but a GFCI protected outlet in an unfinished basement

[John Grabowski]

Be that as it may. If you have a major appliance that if fine other than nuisance tripping the gfci you gonna buy a new appliance? Or take out the gfci and replace it with a single outlet?

*First I would replace the GFI with a new GFI. If the tripping was not eliminated, that would indicate that there's a problem with the appliance and a possible shock hazard. I would not want to keep an appliance that I could get electrocuted from.

[krw]

I thought any outlet near (within 6'?) service had to be GFCI protected.

[RBM]

Any outlet within 6 feet of a sink needs to be GFCI protected. You don't necessarily have a sink within 6 feet of a washer

[RBM]

If you're just ready now, that means a bunch of us still have a ways to go!!!

>

[Beta-42]

Beta-42 wote:

John Grabowski wrote:

Thanks. I'm still going to use the PVC conduit that I planned on using for this one project. But, now I know that in some other cases in an unfinished basement I can just staple the NM cable to a running board that goes down to a wall outlet or switch if the setup is such that there is no reason to believe the NM cable needs to be protected from physical damage. I had thought that was no longer permitted, but I guess it can be okay in some circumstances.

[krw]

Ah, I thought the water pipe was considered a "sink". It'll certainly sink electrons, like one. ;-)

[RBM]

I think that the primary concern with sinks, is small appliances falling into them. Not likely your washer is going to fall in. In kitchens, the original GFCI requirement was within six feet of the sink, the code also restricted the length of kitchen appliance cords, so the idea was that an appliance with a short cord couldn't reach the sink except if plugged into a GFCI outlet. As far as the washer is concerned, if the outlet is properly grounded and the washer has a grounding cord on it, you're safe.

[Ed Pawlowski]

"RBM" wrote

Seems as though one local inspector I'm aware of will still want a GFCI since it is water and an electric appliance. If you are pulling a permit it would be smart to ask in advance.

[RBM]

And depending upon the location of the washer you're making reference to, it may very well require a GFCI protected outlet by NEC rules as well