Redoing my bathroom and I purchased GFCI outlets for the walls. But I just realized that the bathroom, as a whole, is on a GFCI circuit breaker. Does standard practice or the NEC require both? Or is that overdoing it?
-Theodore
Do you have fuses too?
Can't be too careful with that electricity stuff.
Per NEC 2005, 550.13 (B) - a GFCI outlet is not required in a bathroom if the feeder supplying the branch circuit is protected by a ground- fault circuit-interrupter.
I like put the stickers on the outlet that say "GFCI Protected" when my protection is at the feeder.
BRW
It is over doing it, although I don't see any harm in it.
The GFCI outlets cost at least 5 times as much.
The GFCI breaker is the most costly way to do it.
Not needed. My house was built with one GFI breaker for the bathroom outlets, the kitchen sink outlets, and the outdoor outlets.
All those outlets are on one GF breaker?
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Yeah. I think the kitchen sink would be on it, at least. There is no other GFI in the house, or the other 108 houses like mine.
I never use any of the outlets though, except the one in the kitchen, which I really only use for a radio, and sometimes two light bulbs under the cabinet.
Lately I've been using one in the bathroom for an electric toothbrush which takes almost no current, and a 12" tv, which uses some.
Correct, circuits for kitchen outlets can serve dining room outlets but no others. Today, bathroom circuits can't serve any other outlets, but other bathrooms
I had trouble finding your reply because it had >>> in front of it. How did that happen!!! :)
Maybe I'm wrong about the kitchen outlets. I may never have confirmed it.
But since I only have one GFI anything, and I thought the outlet in the kitchen nearest the sink had to be GFI'd, even in 1979, (Don't they?) I figured it was on the same GFI.
I know for sure that the front outdoor outlet is on the GFI breaker, and I know for sure that the outlet in the bathroom with the bathtub is on the same breaker. Is that against code?
I haven't checked the outlets in the other bathrooms or the powder room, because I guess, I almost never use them, and they've always worked.
I haven't checked the one close to the basement sink, into which is plugged the washing machine.
That's not readily accessible, because I do have a washing machine and it's in front of the outlet, but is that supposed to be GFIed. (It's always worked.)
The restriction you are talking about is that kitchen outlets can serve no other parts of the house. Correct?
Anything else in and around the house can share GFCI protection.
I believe in 1979 outlets on either side of kitchen sink , within six feet of the sink were required to be GF protected, but they would be 20 amp circuits. It was typical to have bathroom outlets, outside outlets, and possibly garage outlets, on one circuit, protected by either a GF breaker, or the first outlet in the string, usually nearest the panel, would be a GFCI
I did a remodel once and the building inspector approved a GFCI breaker instead of outlets. It was the easiest way at the time to deal with multiple GFCI requirements.
Only one GFCI is required per circuit.
Use one or the other. It does no particular harm to have both, but if one trips, it is much more trouble to figure out which and reset it.
It has been common practice until recently to use a single CGI breaker, or even a single GFI outlet to protect all the kitchen, bathroom, garage, and outdoor outlets. This is no longer allowed.
If you are remodeling the bathroom, the right way to do it is to run a new 20a feed from the panel for the bathroom alone. You can put the GFI in the panel or at the outlets, but I would put it at the outlet for convenience. One GFI can protect other outlets downstream, or each outlet can have its own GFI, as you prefer, for convenience. Read the instructions and follow the diagram that comes with each GFI for more information on how to wire it.
Each "ordinary" outlet that is protected by a GFI located elsewhere, whether at another outlet or in the panel should be labeled "GFCI protected". Most GFIs come with these labels packed in the box.
If you are not doing a remodel, but just replacing the outlets, you can keep the existing GFI breaker and use appropriately-labeled regular outlets. You can also replace the GFI breaker with a non-GFI breaker and protect the bathroom outlets with one GFI at the "first" outlet. If you replace the GFI breaker with a non-GFI breaker, make sure it is not also protecting other outlets that require GFI protection, such as another bathroom, basement, kitchen, garage, or outdoors.
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I don't know what your definition of "recently" is, but around here it would be hard to find a house with all of the above wired onto a single circuit of any kind.
I can't tell you which edition of the NEC started to change those rules. It didn't happen all at once. It has probably been at least 10 years, but probably not more than 20. I have seen plenty of this kind of thing.
The phone call goes like this: "All the circuits are dead in my bathrooms." "How about the garage and outdoor outlets." "Oh my goodness, yes, those are broken, too." "Go see if you have a GFI outlet in your garage." "What's that?" "It looks like an outlet, except it has two buttons on the front." "OK, I found one -- what's it for?" "I can explain, but first why not go push the reset button." "I have to go get my other glasses, I can't read the label. -- Oh! My bathroom outlet is working! What is going on!" Etc, for half an hour.
It was either that, or charge her $70 to drive over there and reset that GFI. I can tell you that after working up numerous quotes to run new feeders to the kitchen, bathroom, and garage, I never made a sale from fixing that problem.
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