GFCI Fuese

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On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:32:11 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

So, it sounds like your #3 has you and I in agreement. #3 is all that I was trying to say from the get-go: "Properly installed" with one or more downstream receptacles on the *line* side of the GFCI.

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On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 18:50:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Whatever
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On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:51:03 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

While you're at it, might as well correct Clare that there are more than his 3 reasons for installing a GFCI outlet instead of a breaker. I think one big reason he left out is for convenience. Put a GFCI in the bathroom or kitchen and if it trips you can reset it right there, without a trip to the breaker.
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On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 12:44:04 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

It's not worth it. Just when I thought that we had come to an agreement, he responds with an adolescent "whatever".
Moving on.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

Reason number 4: If the circuit uses aluminum wire, the only alternative is a breaker since they don't make GFCI outlets which are rated for aluminum.
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On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 07:43:30 -0400, Arnie Goetchius

Which is a reason NOT to install a GFCI outlet. So no, not a reason number 4 (not saying there are not other reasons to install a GFCI breaker.
The point I was making is reasons why a GFCI might be installed WITHOUT downstream protection
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<stuff snipped>

I feel very "badly" about that grammatical construct.
http://www.google.com/search?q=The+difference+between+you+and+I+
--
Bobby G.



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On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 4:38:31 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:

Me apologizes.
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Uncle Monster submitted this idea :

alt.english.usage alt.usage.english
The second gets more traffic IIRC.
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wrote:

You sound like you think you have one already that has failed? Well, you need to replace one What? Fuse or GFCI protected Fuse?
You're not thinking of Fustats, are you? They screw into the fuse socket and have different pitch threads for each amperage, so you can only screw the correct fustat into the socket. Very popular with landlords who have inadequate wiring and stupid tenants, so the tenant doesn't burn down the place with fuses that are too big. http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/Catalogs/Bus_Ele_Fustat_Fuse_Adapters.pdf
Or are you thinking of circuit breakers that screw into fuse sockets. They have one button in the middle. They are not GFCI, and they are not fuses either. They are circuit breakers shaped like fuses. I haven't seen any for sale but they wouldn't be for sale in a store this far from old housing. Maybe in no store these days, but sure enough, Amazon has them. $9.43 for 20 amps. That's only 47 cents an amp. It gets 4.6 stars. https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BP-MB-20-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B000GAS1GY
They sell Fustats too.

Well if the house has fuses now, it probably meets code, and a GFCI in any outlet would be an improvement, right? This is not the kind of change which requires meeting a later code requirement, is it?
The biggest problem I see is trying to decide which is downstream and which is upstream. I can see the wiring in my basement laundry room, but I would still have a very hard time figuring out which receptacle the power goes to first and then next. One would have to plug in lights or radios to every outlet, then open up the one one thinks is closest to the fusebox, disconnect one side, and see what other receptacles go dead, not just in the same room but other rooms.
Then do the same thing with other receptacles. Unless Helen was only trying to protect
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On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.
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On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 17:24:01 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

GFCIs never needed a ground wire to function.
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On 09/03/2016 11:11 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
[snip]

True.
Also, I remember someone thinking that such a GFCI world CREATE a ground connection. Of course it doesn't.
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wrot

Sort of. It's measuring hot and neutral (for a leak, basically). When it sees they aren't in sync (within tolerance), it trips.
--
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ snipped-for-privacy@boaterdave.dont-email.me>
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Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:24:01 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Umm. Unless you know something about GFCI that I don't, it's never needed a ground wire. From what I understand, the GFCI is watching the voltage from hot to neutral and if they become imbalanced, it trips.
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And read the instructions that come with that same unit -
Can I use a GFCI in a 2 wire (ungrounded) circuit? Yes. Section 406.3(D)(3) of the 2008 National Electric Code permits a non-grounding type receptacle to be replaced with a grounding type receptacle without a grounding connection. However, the grounding receptacle must be GFCI-protected. The diagram below shows a typical non-grounding (2-prong) receptacle replaced with a GFCI. The GFCI must be marked, "No Equipment Ground." The GFCI can feed through to a grounding receptacle, which must be marked "GFCI Protected. No Equipment Ground." For increased electrical safety, Leviton strongly recommends installing a GFCI in every non-grounding circuit. A ground wire provides protection by offering a parallel path back to ground for any fault current. Without a ground wire, fault current will try and take other paths to ground and a GFCI will trip and cut power under these hazardous conditions. Ground faults are more likely to occur in non-grounding circuits and a GFCI will help protect family members from this potentially hazardous condition
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:) Yes, it has a place to connect ground, so that it can provide a ground to anything plugged into it as well as attached on the load side of it (as long as you ground them too). It doesn't use ground to do it's job and try to prevent you from getting a potentially nasty shock, though. It's monitoring the hot and neutral wires coming into it.
If it sees any difference in current between the two, it'll trip. Faster than a breaker normally can. And under conditions where the breaker might not trip. IE: you're the source to ground, but, you aren't causing enough of a drain to overload the breaker running the circuit and you aren't causing a short circuit condition, either. So, if you can't get free, you're getting cooked.
GFCI won't allow that to happen. It sees the current going back to neutral isn't matching what's coming in on the hot line. A leak has been detected. Cut power, as in yesterday. Saved your ass. You probably didn't even get a tingle, it responds that fast.
Sadly, the GFCI is a little on the sensitive side and can result in unwanted tripping when certain devices try to power up plugged into one. It's not due to a surge on startup of the device.. It's because the device is leaking a little more current than the GFCI is okay with. This leak may still be harmless to you, but, the GFCI isn't okay with it.
If this happens, and the device works fine on other properly wired outlets, you can try plugging a surge (protector) surpressor into the gfci and your device (like a treadmill) into the surge surpressor. This may be enough to stop it. If that doesn't work, an isolation transformer will do the trick.
Also! I've noticed that some surge surpressors will also trip a GFCI receptacle. I suspect it's because a small amount of current is leaking due to worn/cheap MOVs. If yours is, either replace it or try to find a GFCI outlet that you can still make use of that doesn't trip when you try to use it. Tolerance varies, slightly.
--
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On 09/05/2016 02:31 PM, Diesel wrote:
[snip]

Around 1995 I installed GFCI (no ground wire to or from the GFCI) for my grandmother to use on holiday lights she put on the ground. It tripped after a rain when some fire ants built a mound around one of the lights (unintentional path to ground through wet soil).
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Mark Lloyd laid this down on his screen :

Lemme guess, it was only rated for 30 ants?
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Five milliants
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