GFCI Circuit protection question-outdoor wiring

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wrote:

Get a 2/4 disconnect and install one 15a 2 pole for the heat and two 20a single pole for the 120v loads. Put a GFCI receptacle for the first receptacle on each circuit. You can put the lights on the non-GFCI side. "Diversity" will keep you out of trouble. Be sure to get the suplimental grounding bus, don't install the bonding screw, drive a rod (goes to the grounding bus).
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

SO your thinking 30A would be sufficient to serve my needs? I mean, I could add a 3000W device(s) and still be under...
I got a 100A sub-panel, the grounding bus, will NOT bond the neutral, and will eventually add a gounding rod outside. But do I really need a disconnect?
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chester wrote:

The US NEC requires a disconnecting means for each separate structure.
"225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure. 225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be permitted to be utilized."
So as long as your panel is located "at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors" all you have to do is install a double pole breaker with a breaker tie down kit and feed your supply into the breakers terminals. That breaker is then the service disconnecting means for the shed. The phrase "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors" is generally held to mean not more than five linear or ten wire feet from were the conductors enter the structure.
Since, IIRC, you are in Washington State you would be under the Uniform Building Code (UBC). The UBC has no rules about whether the disconnect is inside or outside of the structure. The Southern Building Code required and exterior disconnecting means at one time. -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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OK so just add a double pole 30A breaker as a main breaker in the panel.
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wrote:

As long as there are no more than 6 breakers in the shed he is OK without a "main" out there.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That's true as long as all of the breakers are clearly labeled to indicate they are service disconnecting means. -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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wrote:

That would be misleading, there are no service conductors present here.
You folks are really working too hard to make this complicated
225.37 Exception No. 2: This identification shall not be required for branch circuits installed from a dwelling unit to a second building or structure.
It is a good idea to label these as disconnects but not required. The panelboard still has to be labelled tho.
A fireman will probably pull the meter anyway
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

225.7 does not apply to a building with a single source of supply so the exceptions to it do not apply either. THE UBC and the Uniform Fire Prevention Code, which are adopted by law in the OPs state of Washington, both require the labeling of building disconnecting means.
Most Firefighters do not pull meters because they can fail explosively when that is improperly done. What we do is to open all of the utility disconnects we can find. -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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HorneTD wrote:

Could you describe how it is "improperly done"? [I'm not challenging what you said.]
Bud--
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Bud-- wrote:

If a meter blade on the line side makes contact with the meter enclosure while the meter blades on the utility side are still in contact with the terminals an Arc blast will occur. The highest risk of this occurring is in outdated T based meters and in ring type meter mounts. -- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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wrote:

I only watched them do it once but the guy took the pointy end of his fire ax, snapped the seal and ring and hooked the meter. Then he popped it out on the ground in one quick move. If it arced it would only be a few miliseconds.
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wrote:

Then the SERVICE disconnect will drop this building with the rest of the house.
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chester wrote:

Yes with a breaker tie down kit provided that the panel is mounted "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors." -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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HorneTD wrote:

Edison must have known AMUN...
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What are you using the shed for, again? And what's the price difference, and does that price difference change if you go to conduit and/or individual strand?
30A is probably enough for a home workshop with one user, and if you use conduit, you can always swap out the feeder and breaker(s) if you decide to upgrade.
(Although if we were making stone soup, I'd observer that having a few extra amps for an arc-welder is always, good, and wouldn't it be nice to be able to put in AC and a refridgerator?...)
--Goedjn
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Goedjn wrote:

Well, it is actually more like a backyard "cabin". About 250 sq feet, with one indoor light fixture, one outdoor motion-activated light. it willl have a couch, a table and a desk. It is like adding a room on to a house I figure. Electrical load will be TV, heater, maybe a tredmill, light, etc. Light electircal load, I think. Occaisonally I willl be running a miter saw or skill saw, or some other power tool. One at a time, always. I think 30A is enogh, but I will run conduit, in case I want to change.
I wonder, if I run conduit, the whole way out, even if it is underground, do I need UF cable?

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gk wrote:

> > Well, it is actually more like a backyard "cabin". About 250 sq feet, > with one indoor light fixture, one outdoor motion-activated light. it > will have a couch, a table and a desk. It is like adding a room on to > a house I figure. Electrical load will be TV, heater, maybe a > treadmill, light, etc. Light electrical load, I think. Occasionally I > will be running a miter saw or skill saw, or some other power tool. > One at a time, always. I think 30A is enough, but I will run conduit, > in case I want to change. > > I wonder, if I run conduit, the whole way out, even if it is > underground, do I need UF cable? >
No you do not need UF or any other form of cable in conduit. You can run individual conductors that are suitable for wet locations such as very commonly available THWN. T = Thermoplastic, H = High temperature @ 75 degree centigrade temperature rating of the insulation, W = Wet locations, N = Nylon coated. -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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gk wrote:

What is the total length of the circuit from the service equipment to the garage? With that information I can find the voltage drop for the circuit. -- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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it is approximatley 75 feet
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gk wrote:

#6 AWG aluminum wire carrying fifty amperes would have a voltage drop of 2.1 %. -- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
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